Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

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Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Kalb on 15.07.13 12:05

Em Hotep,

Friends, I need your help to give continuum to my thoughts or even to delete my theory or add something new. Let's go start then. As all of you know, the Book of Orion written by Luis Marques is full of food and many details were revealed to Asetianists and to all that feel interested on Asetian World. It's confirmed too that it's not possible understand the book without read first the Asetian Bible, my main theme is between both books. Some time ago, after watch the documentary "Sexual Alchemy of the Thoth Tarot " created by Lon Milo Duquette and read the book "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot " from the same author many theories came to my mind, inclusive after understand the secrets of the Rose Cross Back of each card that Thoth Tarot has. He explain in the simple and clear way how connected are the 3 mothers letters, the 7 double letters and the 12 simple letters. In the center is the cube (Cross). The first three colors are the yellow, blue and red and represent the three trumps: The Fool, the Hunged Man and the Aeon. These hieroglyphics also represent the three main letters of the Hebrew alphabet: Aleph (Air), Mem (Water), and Shin (Fire). Then we have 7 flowers representing the 7 double letters: Beth (Mercury), Gimel (Moon), Daleth (Venus), Kaph (Jupiter), Pe (Mars), Resh (Sun) and Tav (Saturn), and finally the remaining 12 flowers representing the signs of the Zodiac and the rest of the trumps. My main focus is how these mysteries could be represented in the Asetian Culture. I inspired myself in the example of Lon Milo Duquette and I modified (added) On my way to see the prospect of things. According to the Djehutys, 3 eras was connected with Asetian domain and 1 era connected with Sethians domain, in that case we have something like that:

- The Djehuty of the Scorpion
- The Djehuty of the Hawk
- The Djehuty of the Serpent

The Tarot is something that is constantly evolving and adapting, the Tarot is nature, the universe and it is ourselves. I can think of the probability of each Djehuty to be attached to each element and each element connected to a Tarot card, therefore, we have:

- Element Water connected to Scorpions.
- Element Air connected to Scarabs.
- Element Fire connected to Serpents.

Or I do still think that the three children of Aset, the Primordial, are connected to each element, when united have full control over all elements, including Earth. Returning to the tarot, the fool is connected to the element Air, The Hanged Man connected to the element Water and the Fire connected with the New Aeon. Following this logic, I will apply the same procedure for the 7 Asetian Pillars, I must say that I'm not sure what I did, I chose to put the 7 Asetians Pillars according to my interpretation, may not match with any truth, but serves as an example of my reasoning.




Anyway, what do you think of this? it's crazy to do this? Is it interesting? Do you have some infos to add?
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by N.Augusta on 18.07.13 7:08

I like this, Kalb! Keep on exploring! Smile
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Jonathan on 18.07.13 9:04

I agree this is great Kalb. I can sense that you're growing in your studies and deepening your perspectives. That's a great thing!
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Kalb on 18.07.13 9:26

Thank you, N.Augusta & Jonathan.
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Victor on 21.07.13 16:28

Interesting study. A few questions that may help you in this exploration:

Why the Was on the Empress? Wouldn't it suit the natural laws better in the Fortune position? How about the Ib, wouldn't it fill better the cosmic roles of the High Priestess, being the Ancient Egyptian word for Heart and all the magick associated with it?

Think before you reply.
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Kalb on 22.07.13 19:07

Hum .. Interesting.

I think I need more time to meditate, but in any case, here's why my choice. In AB, if I count of backwards to front I will have the following order: Ib, Ba, Was.. Was is the number three of the count and according to the sequence of the planets in BoO we have: Mercury, Moon, Venus, Jupiter,....Venus is the number 3 of counting. Thus, in the card III of Tarot (Empress), we have the astrological assignment where the planet Venus is connected. Three is also the fundamental elements: sulfur, mercury and salt, they are the chemical elements which is the same thing as the gunas that move the universe... which oddly enough is on the card of Fortune, is also interesting that some people believe that  the goddess Pachamama (Andean civilization) is the Empress. Pachamama is usually translated as cosmos or the universe. Anyway, I enjoyed your hint, Victor. You opened my mind, I was so focused on number 3, I ended up losing important details, including the card Universe.

I chose the Ib in fortune because regardless of all our changes that life can take, the true emotions,the pure and strong feelings, will not has weaknesses, after all, is our heart that moves us in life ....Weak Heart, weak life. Without heart, no life, no wheel,no Power, heart is the fundamental key of each human being to live.

Now I find myself with a problem in your suggestion, if I move the Ib to the   High Priestess position, I will have to face a fundamental pillar, "The Blood of Aset - Tiet". In Asetianism, Aset is everything. She is the origin of all, it was through Aset that everything emerged. Therefore, it is not easy to limit the Blood of Aset in any planet, and I had to be selective in choosing the planet. Realizing that Aset is a Divine duality, and that in numerology the number 2 represents the Yin Yang, I could not be more pleased than put in the position of the Moon not only by the duality, but also by all the symbolism and connection between Aset and Thoth.

The Blood of Aset is the Heart of all Magick...
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Kalb on 30.07.13 11:56

Em Hotep,

Already some people said that this post is very interesting, I'm happy for that because I think that thread is also very interesting and we can always grows with this type of study.

Victor, I meditated alot in what you said and... Well, let's starts with simple steps. I think I can take a long time to answer your questions, but lately I struggled to get a better understanding of the symbolism, I did and found it to be the most correct. However, after your intervention I saw things differently. I have to admit that my knowledge in the Tarot is not much, but it is growing day by day, and basic concepts may change in the future. So this time I'll slowly with all of you and hope to receive your feedback, improvements and honest comments.

Khepri = Universe: I chose to put the universe in this position because the universe is infinite, and dynamic, constantly evolving as Asetian nature. The Universe is the card XXI (21). 21 is the perfect number 21 = 3 (lineages) x 7 (7 is the Sacred number of Aset). The inverse of 21 is 12 and again we have 3 +7 +12 = 22. The card XXI seems the last path in the tree of life, but, in fact is the first path, since the Universe is the beginning to get the Spiritual evolution. In Asetianism, the most important thing is to be transformed and evolve, evolution is the key to the liberation of universal understanding and spiritual.

Ba = The Tower: According to the first secret of Orion, through the concept of the sarcophagus, which is broken when a student breaks the treasure and conquer the Ba in the Spiritual path, gaining Understanding and Wisdom on the hidden things and the card that is represented with this symbolism is... The Tower. The transformation process is strongly linked to the "Awakening" as explained in Asetian Bible, the process of Dark Kiss.

Tiet: The Empress: I am very confused in this card. I have seen many representations of the symbol of venus, one representing is the Ankh is often compared to the symbol of venus. In my point of view the symbol of venus conversely is just a representation of the hieroglyphic Nefer. Nefer was used in Egyptian dynasties, was and is a real name and in Kemetic means "Beauty / Purity". Interestingly, the symbolism of venus is about love, beauty, union, purity, among others. There is an interesting detail to the feet of the Empress, has a pelican with their children, according to the legend, when this bird has no way to feed their children tap their chest and gives them to drink their own blood.. Can I adapt this concept to Tiet? - Blood Of Aset.

Victor wrote:
Why the Was on the Empress? Wouldn't it suit the natural laws better in the Fortune position? How about the Ib, wouldn't it fill better the cosmic roles of the High Priestess, being the Ancient Egyptian word for Heart and all the magick associated with it?
Think before you reply.

Victor: Sorry I did not answer you yet, I need more time to meditate, but I left some of my new thoughts above.

Btw, >You can All participate and make your own opinion.
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Divine 277 on 30.07.13 14:45

I love this .. Please continue to share what you learn Smile thank you Smile
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Jonathan on 30.07.13 16:05

I don't think there was a need to change your original positions for Ba and Khepri.

Associating Tiet with The Empress sounds promising though. After all Tiet is the Blood of Aset, her essence and power, and she is the ultimate leader and source for the Asetians, so in a metaphoric sense she's pretty much an empress. Actually not an empress, she is THE Empress.
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Kalb on 30.07.13 16:13

Jonathan wrote:I don't think there was a need to change your original positions for Ba and Khepri.

Why not?

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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Jonathan on 30.07.13 16:39

Because they didn't feel wrong.
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Kalb on 31.07.13 3:37

Hum... I see.

The High Priestess is usually represented by Aset (some believe it is a representation of the Goddess Hathor). Anyway, in the card She is sitting on the throne and Aset in Egyptian means “Throne”. The High Priestess of the Rider Waite Tarot for example has a beautiful representation of the three pillars of the tree of life. Left, Middle and Right. Aset is the engine behind of all tree of Life. Moreover, behind the throne we can see too the Sephiroths and in her hands we see the Tora, according to many the Tora is the law of nature from our lives here in Malkuth, but according to Victor, represent the cosmic roles. It’s really an interesting perspective to see things, more universal, more deep.  Now, the High Priestess is the giver of life. She is the principle of life. Hence I have put Tiet here, but, according the advise of Victor the Pillar Ib is well represented here. Your answer was interesting Jonathan, make all sense.

So in your view(Victor/Jonathan/and others) this would be an interesting order?

Tower = Khepri
Sun = Ka
Magus = Ankh
Empress = Tiet
High Priestess = Ib
Universe = Ba
Fortune = Was

If yes why? If not why?

Thank's for the reply.
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Jonathan on 31.07.13 11:42

That sounds good to me. I would like to read Victor's opinion though.

These are the threads that make us think, question things and take risks in how we approach such magick. So thank you Kalb.
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Kalb on 07.08.13 12:43

Em Hotep,

I accept your suggestions. I think that is a very interesting perspective to meditate. Here is an update.

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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Nightshade on 07.08.13 13:05

This is material for the advanced occultist. The symbolism is very complex and can be used in the practical mastery of energy, if you know how to use the mind to control energy and how symbolism directly affects that part of the psyche. Thank you for laying this out for other members to use.
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Kalb on 08.08.13 7:22

I see, Nighshade. In my case, I do not consider myself an advanced occultist. I can agree with you that the symbolism is very complex, but, even for novice students, I believe this symbolism makes sense. In other words, this is also material to the newbies. When the student is educated and can "see" what the experienced knows how to work, so I believe it is the beginning of the awareness of reality.

Makes me much confusion study things that I do not understand, with the help of our community I have managed the understanding of many things. My thanks.
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Nightshade on 08.08.13 9:07

You are exploring advanced occult studies. It's clear from your understanding that you're not a beginner. I can agree that such material can also be useful to newbies, even if it may be confusing at first. At least it certainly is better to explore such subjects and put their mind to good use rather than waste it in fantasies as many new to the occult end up doing.
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Kalb on 09.08.13 10:45

Nightshade, you're so kind with me. Thank you.
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Stapleraindrop on 09.08.13 11:20

Why did you connect the djeuty of the hawk to concubines? I know that it fits in with each djeuty relating to one particular lineage, but was the hawk not the symbol of horus? The other two symbols, the scorpion, and viper directly represent the two lineages. Why would you think that the scarab's particular djeuty would be represented by a different animal?
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Nightshade on 09.08.13 12:04

Kalb wrote:Nightshade, you're so kind with me. Thank you.
Not kindness, just speaking my mind.
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Kalb on 09.08.13 17:23

Stapleraindrop wrote:Why did you connect the djeuty of the hawk to concubines? I know that it fits in with each djeuty relating to one particular lineage, but was the hawk not the symbol of horus? The other two symbols, the scorpion, and viper directly represent the two lineages. Why would you think that the scarab's particular djeuty would be represented by a different animal?
Em Hotep, Stapleraindrop.

Your questions are really interesting. I have studied Kabbalah through Tarot, and you noticed that all my symbolism was based on Tarot. For example, the 10 cards of each suit has its own symbolism, as the Cups represent emotional states, the amount of water that we see on each card(Thoth Tarot) shows the emotional flow expressed, with this, I can call this symbolism to the Lineage of Guardians, exactly by their emotional state in be strong, pure and transparent about their feelings. The suit of Wands represents different manifestations of power and speed and levels, and among others, I can connect to the lineage of the Serpent because that lineage dominates and manipulates energy in a easy way...

Please, keep in mind that, Horus is the Beloved King of the Asetians. Horus was seen many times as a mighty Hawk, I can agree with you, but the Djehuty of the Serpent is the basis of the archetype of Horus too.

Horus is the Leader. His name is always flattered.
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Jonathan on 10.08.13 13:04

I really like this study. I'm just not sure if Djehuty connections can be drawn in this kind of symbolism, but the rest seems quite enlightening. Much material to explore and meditate upon if someone is willing to undergo all that work and learning experience.
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Kalb on 10.08.13 16:37

I understand you well, Jonathan. In fact, I agree with you. It's a hard subject, and I am open to receive new theories and explanations.
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Kalb on 13.08.13 11:02

Friends,

Any of you have the courage to put the Seven Pillars in the 7 Sephiroths below the abyss?
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Re: Different perspective of Rose Cross. (Back of Each card)

Post by Jonathan on 13.08.13 12:33

I promise to give you a reply but only when I'm 80. study
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