Violet Flame

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Re: Violet Flame

Post by BellBook&Candle on 08.09.13 14:01

Hello Max and thank you for your response. The question I am asking with regard to the origins of the Violet Flame is less for my own information, and more about the claims made by the Aset Ka and those within this forum who parrot those claims. Since this discussion began attempts have been made to insult, belittle and patronize me, all because I have asked a question. A question in my view that needs to be answered as there are clearly others within other traditions who are discussing and by they're own admission experiencing the Violet Flame. What I have experienced today is not a community who encourage free thought, intelligent debate and questioning outwith the Asetian Doctrine. There are many questions one could ask regarding the validity of certain claims made by the Aset Ka. I would like to encourage those reading this to truly ask themselves how much they really know about the Aset Ka and the Asetian tradition. Something I find quite interesting is that it is clearly stated on AK website that unless information is validated by the AK then it cannot be trusted. It also states that any information regarding the Aset Ka on unofficial forums like this one should not be considered reliable, yet time and time again members elude to the fact that they are in the know. Makes me wonder how unofficial this forum really is, or how not in the know the members really are. I wonder which one it is . ? Those on a serious path seem to flock here to learn and grow and because of that i think the information  volunteered should be accurate.
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by BellBook&Candle on 08.09.13 14:10

Max I would just like to say that my previous post was not directed at you personally. I appreciate what you said and I thank you for that.
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by Maxx on 08.09.13 14:22

@BellBook&Candle

I understand somewhat in what you are saying...If you have read any of the posts here, you will find a similar inquiry of mine in the past......but I will say again, that if you are asking for others and not just for your own info to obtain the answer to that question.....that is not going to happen.  EVER.  

Because, if you are asking for your question to be answered for the benefit of others as well as yourself....who is to say they can understand everything that is connected with this answer.....it is for individual enlightenment only.....and that is why I suggested the process of inquiry such as I did......for one that is ready....can always find an answer as there is no such thing as a real secret in this process we live in....if one is equipped with the knowledge and the process to find it.......and also, as Jonathan and also Kalb suggested, there is always the process of turning pages and reading  (including the internet) to find answers.....But the method you are suggesting to obtain your answer will never, ever take place.

And as an afterthought, I do find some of the content discussed here to be a benefit......while others..... not so much.....and I am comparing it with the other sites out there in ether land and the dribble that you find there described as so called enlightened education...... I find it to be somewhat lacking in substance.  But that is my personal view.....and of course many view me and my view as not only off the wall...but many yards or miles on the other side of the wall.......
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by BellBook&Candle on 08.09.13 14:41

Maxx I fear you have misinterpreted what I have said. When I say the question I am asking is not so much for my own information I am not asking on behalf of others. It's not the nature or existence of the Violet Flame I am questioning, it's the existence of the Violet Flame being exclusively Asetian in nature. I agree with what you say that really there are no true secrets in the reality we share. There are ways for occultists of a certain persuasion to find out what ever they want. The reason I am here is to question something I actually believe to be in the interests of this community. It's OK not to know something, but it's not OK to claim to know something and to pretend that you do. Especially when there are people who are more easily influenced than others. What I said previously regarding the AK website and what it says regarding forums such as this, I would like to invite anyone to respond to that point.
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by Maxx on 08.09.13 14:52

I will post a response in the past from Victor as I think it applies here...and of course when he returns I think he will address some more details to a response for you...but in the mean time....

Victor said in response to something similar.....

"You are right to question everything I write. What I share is the result of occult study of many years and knowledge passed down by others who have studied the Asetians for even longer than I have, many who would rather remain in the shadow than under the lights of a deceiving modern reality, but my contributions are also admittedly, as you said, educated opinions. You are free to use them in your learning but I advise you to form your own opinion based on your conclusions. This forum is not a school of Asetianism, we don't teach Asetianism, we only help others learning it by themselves. The path of Asetianism is eternal and every initiate is forever learning. There is no ending that would force you to find another path to continue evolving, and those who end up believing they reached the end have only found initiatory obstacles that are essential parts of the path that you must break in order to transcend into higher consciousness. Not everyone has the required courage and perseverance to succeed in the Asetian path.

Asetian Truth you will only find in the words of the Asetians themselves. The real ones, not the many pretenders to be found online. We don't pretend to be what we are not in here."
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by BellBook&Candle on 08.09.13 15:02

I have read this post previously and have spoken with Victor privately. I hope your previous post does not distract or discourage others from giving they're own opinions regarding the validity of the AK's claims regarding the Violet Flame and indeed what has been stated in the "remark" section of the AK website.
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by Maxx on 08.09.13 17:41

well then, I will not post again after this since you have no desire to have me interact in it....but this obsession with having a black and white admission for your own reward on a public venue in accordance with the other groups you made mention of is not even in anyway  going to produce your desired effect.  It is not going to give you the status you think it will.   I am holding back and being nice in the words I am using......yes.  So feel free to unleash your whirlwind toward me.....Wink ....If you have had private talks with Victor then you already have your answer and now you are trying to put it all up on stage to try and force an issue.    Here is my take.....it reminds me of something that is so apparent in todays magical community......and I see it happening every day.

Most magick talked about and presented today is shown to be acquired through course work.. And those courses are tiered so that one person is always at the top!! A power hungry person leading this pack( people like that will pull anyone off balance who comes close to them -- in other words the whole thing may appear to be able to acquire an end result of success.... but does it now?  Real magical understanding is never based on a 1,2, 3, 4 course layout.  Real magic is a complete soul transformation.  It is not learned from going from one step to another doing memory work.  Soul transformation occurs when magic is learned from a higher source first hand...not from another human.  Today, there are many out there that say you can become your own god.....God.....just send in $495 to me for your instructions......lol....nothing but another Miss Cleo at work.  Until one prepares and works educating and transforming the energy around them in a successful way, all they are going to get is a spirit laughing at them and giving them misinformation because they could not handle the truth...and the truth would kill them cause they are not ready....and how can they get ready with such mockery for teaching.

Miss BellBookCandle, I may be wrong but I believe you have fallen in with some of the other groups that come here time and time again to waste opportunities to find those things that we all can join to work together on rather than search out one thing to cause a dark display and draw attention. What you are after you will in no way attain. Not at all.....and trying to drum up others to join you in your deed has been attempted many times before...to no avail.......good luck...



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Re: Violet Flame

Post by Maxx on 08.09.13 17:49

and trying to get a rational humanistic violet flame description such as is talked about in other forums is rather lame....as the entire process is done on a higher frequency than what you are trying to get explanation one. And I now ask you a question.....would you join and accept the teaching of the present day St. Germain......golly....I cannot see anyone being a part of that following......unless they directed that movie.....One Flew over the Cuckcoos nest... Are you joining the concept they are teaching....of the lady and her son? And such are the claims of others......Will they tell you answers like the type you are asking here....? Are they completely secret? It appears not as they need all kinds of media hype to help with their enrollment....
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by Kalb on 08.09.13 18:05

BellBook&Candle wrote:I hope your previous post does not distract or discourage others from giving they're own opinions regarding the validity of the AK's claims regarding the Violet Flame and indeed what has been stated in the "remark" section of the AK website.
The Violet Flame is the Touch of Aset, or, the Essence of Aset. Aset is the mother of Asetians, shared his Violet Ka with their Children. The nature of Asetian Soul is different from that of a human and according to the Book of Nun, the first chapter of Asetian Bible, the human soul is created from the drops of the waters of chaos in the Duat, by Amon. As you can see, both Souls are different, with different properties and vibrational levels, transformed and created in different ways. Therefore, the Violet Flame is something that's part of Them. Part of Their Hearts. Something that is not separate but is Within Them and no mortal can feel the vibration of Violet Flame as Asetians.. because they are part of the flame, they are the flame itself.

For centuries, The Djehuty of the Crocodile, was the key of religion, dominating the world by lies, false advertising, defamation and among others thing. The existence of such mistaken beliefs had their time, now it's time to tell the truth, especially when we find lies. Questions should be asked, but not all deserve an answer, there are questions that should be answered only by silence and dedication. I understand the behavior of Jonathan, but I think you should keep a treaty of peace with him or him with you, there is no need to create wars when people can not stand to hear criticism.
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by Stapleraindrop on 08.09.13 19:47

Due to the presence of the flame within Asentians, would they theoretically have a predominantly violet aura?
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by Jonathan on 09.09.13 4:30

That was well explained Kalb, thank you for the input.

To make it clear I want to say that there is no war, I just don't appreciate the tone and implications when someone uses the immature argument that if you aren't willing to give them all proof you've got then it means you know nothing, and if you do you're obliged to give them your research. It reminds me of kindergarten, there is where kids make that sort of claims and arguments. "You can jump that high? Then do it in front of class or else it means you can't! lalalala". Please... I just have no patience for that. Actually I'm sure others may understand what I mean, as an occultist we deal with this kind of immaturity often from people who say the very same thing about magick and spirituality. Many will accuse you that magick doesn't exist unless you cast some spell in front of them to prove it. Do you do it? If you're real I'm sure you don't. That way of thinking says a lot of about where people are in their own journey and evolution.
Now don't get me wrong I'm not implying that I'm an advanced occultist or making any claims of higher knowledge, but some things are just evident and you all know how I like to keep the records straight. The problem is not about proof and others have asked me for things before which I have explained or provided the place to find them in private, it's how the situation was handled and how things were demanded, which clearly shows one is not ready or deserving of such knowledge. The tone and demanding, as well as quick judgement if what was asked wasn't intentionally provided, I state again that it's clear evidence of someone who isn't used to explore the occult and magick.

Anyways I just want to make clear that my posts and perseverance in this thread have nothing to do with disliking criticism or not appreciating seeing things being challenged. Those who know me and have followed my contributions in here along the years have seen me promoting that difference of opinion and for people to question things, I even question myself often on many subjects as we're all learning. I said this many times. But one thing is welcoming intelligent discussions that promote the learning of all, an entirely different one is accepting some obsession and repetition of an immature argument we find among kids, not educated occultists seeking learning. It's clear when a question comes from a desire of learning, or when someone openly states they aren't asking to learn but just to make a point. I don't feed that. Maxx noticed that and hence his change of approach from one post to another in this thread. It goes down to an important teaching by Marques, on how people want to be hand-fed instead of doing the hard work to learn. And they want it fast! That's not how magick and the occult work, and such people will never find answers, no matter how many times they insult and twist people's words and intentions. Smile

I hope you all understand my reasons better now. I will not drag this anymore.
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by BellBook&Candle on 09.09.13 12:01

Firstly I would like to respond to Max. I realize from your response that you have taken me to be abrupt and if I have offended you in any way it was not my intention. I was on my way out last night and responded quickly. I have noticed that people are quite easily offended and unfortunately the nature of posting in forums means that the art of conversation is lost. In my daily life I like to speak with people face to face hence why I rarely participate in online discussions. In response to Jonathan and Max jointly, it's clear you  are convinced I have no occult background, that I know nothing regarding Asetianism and the occult etc etc and I am absolutely fine with that. I am not interested in raising my status within this forum as to be perfectly honest it is irrelevant to my life. If you feel that you need to keep educating me on what real magick is then feel free. Essentially you are preaching to the converted if I can coin a phrase. Anyway if this conversation had been conducted face to face I highly doubt we would find ourselves in this situation. From my perspective the way this discussion has been conducted speaks of the shortcomings of certain individuals who appear to loose they're cool when challenged. That's generally not the mark of an evolved soul. (Generally) . I think it's unfortunate that not one person has bothered to ask me what my occult background is and has instead persisted in assuming I am ignorant in metaphysical and occult matters. Again for me this is an indication of someone who has gotten too comfortable tarring everyone with the same brush. I have participated in many occult discussions face to face and there has never been a problem asking certain questions about how someone knows something to be true. The question I originally asked was a very simple one. It had nothing to do with the definition of the Violet Flame or what it is. I asked how one can be certain that the Violet Flame is exclusively Asetian. I asked this question for 2 reasons. 1: The subject of the Violet Flame has been raised in some of my offline conversations with non Asetian/Asetianist occultists which I found interesting. I posted the web link to get the ball rolling.
2: I wanted to see how such a question would be addressed in this forum.

For a forum that harps on and on about how mature it is and how intelligent discussion and debate is encouraged and promoted, this particular discussion has proved to be completely the opposite. I have not lost my cool, I have not personally insulted anyone's integrity or called into question anyone's Occult background. I have simply asked a question and every time I have, there has been a tag team effort to divert from the original subject. It's disappointing but not unsurprising.
Would it really have killed your ego that much to just simply say " I really can't be entirely sure the Violet Flame is exclusively Asetian"? because the truth of the matter whether you like it or not is that you can't be entirely sure. You are not an AK member, you are not an immortal Asetian soul (by your own admission) So really you should be asking yourself how much you really know VS what you have been told or think you know. The only thing true occultists know is that they know nothing.

This has dragged on long enough I think, and for the record there are absolutely no hard feelings towards anyone who has participated in this discussion from myself. I may or may not get involved in other discussions or I may start other threads ( perish the thought!  ) Either way it has been fascinating and If anyone would like to be in touch privately by all means feel free to PM me. If not I thank you for your time and will possibly see you in the future.
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by Kalb on 09.09.13 14:06

I don't think that I deserve ignore of your part, BellBook&Candle. I have great respect for Maxx and Jonathan, and I think you're unfair with them. You had the courage to say how you felt and you thought, like them, but they were OK with your position, and seems to me that you did not keep OK with what they said. A few years ago when I started using Linux, I started asking questions on everyplace and many people were poorly educated with me, saying that I was lazy and wanted all in the palm of my hand without working to required the information. At first I was upset because I thought they had to help me because I was using something that they created, and therefore I should be helped so they have more one user in their distro. But the truth is that it still feel ignorant, I liked linux, liked that move, but dependent on assistance from others and what others perceived to be the best for my explorations. It was then that I started making my own farm and learned many things alone and today when I put a question I am often helped because they know that my question is a high level, a advanced level. As explained Jonathan above, the same works with the occult world and in this view I really agree with Jonathan.

You ignore my answer, considering the opinion of Maxx and Jonathan as an attack on your person and my answer is no longer important. Nobody's forcing you to be here, but if you want respect, you have to return the respect that people give you and in this case I did not see any consideration of you about myself. My advice to you, is meditate on everything that happens here and see if your behavior was really the best with us, especially with Jonathan, who was your friend to advise you, but you refuse listen.

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Re: Violet Flame

Post by BellBook&Candle on 09.09.13 14:23

Kalb, with respect I did not start this thread to discuss the Asetian perception of the Violet Flame or what it is. I don't think I have been unfair in the slightest towards Jonathan. I have been perfectly polite throughout this discussion. As stated above I have not thrown around insults, I have responded to them. The reason I did not respond to you directly is because what you said wasn't particularly relevant to what I was asking and there have been enough attempts made to steer the conversation away from the original point. You offered your opinion and understanding which is fine, but it wasn't directly relevant to my question. You seem a little upset that I left you out and again it was not my intention to offend.
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by BellBook&Candle on 09.09.13 14:41

Kalb, It has occurred to me that I did indeed ask you for your opinion regarding the Violet Flame and although you did not directly answer the question I asked, I would like to offer you my sincere apology for not responding and for the parts relating to you in my previous post. It was the timing of your post that prompted me to respond in the way I did. It's quite the balancing act trying to respond to multiple people in a clear way that can be understood. However that is no excuse. i hope you can accept what I have said.
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by Stapleraindrop on 09.09.13 16:55

I was actually talking to a spirit about the topic earlier, and what I was told was that cultures talk about the violet flame, because when one attains spiritual enlightenment their aura increases in strength and vibration. Violet is the highest 'strength' of colour we can perceive in the astral, so any enlightened individual would have a 'violet flame' of sorts, which would be their aura and not the kiss of Aset.
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by Maxx on 09.09.13 19:52

Bell......why don't you go to the site you gave us at the beginning.....and ask that flock all the ins and outs of how they came to begin using that display of violet flame?............Although it is not even connected in any way with what the Aset Ka released in the Asetian Bible and it appears to be an entirely different topic. We are not even speaking of the same thing as is on display for that site.  That illustration came from the I am movement so it has no credibility at all.  But I can understand why people connect to it.....people will grasp at anything they think will give them a peace of mind without working for it....

And again, the fact you mentioned you had spoken to Victor about this in private should have given you enough material to put you in the right direction if you are sincere about this...... if you were interested in doing research about it.....but instead you come back and on the open forum after your conversation with him and begin with a display of demands for an answer to a question I believe you designed to cause havoc even before your first posting.  Your method and even your own admission of private conversation about this throws your entire discussion out the door as now being suspect.  Again, you will not get what you are after here.  It is all designed to create havoc for the on lookers outside the forum......and is a recurring attempt at ridicule of this forum......and that says a great deal about the element that watches from afar....including those banned individuals.  Your attempt to get a herd of individuals here to join you in your demand for a desired effect is very evident.......and my position is that I do not give a damn what you think and I call a lie a lie out front.....so you have your declaration but in a different manner than desired.  And I am not one of the nice ones here when your actions do not match your words.  Asking for private contacts behind the scenes to drum up discontent does wonders in showing what your true reasoning is here.
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by Lilith's Nightchild on 09.09.13 23:42

I'm a newbie to the history of AK and Asetianism in general (though not to occultism), but I've read a little bit, and there are a few claims made by AK that I find questionable myself. Most notably, I have seen no solid evidence that AK is an ancient cult that's been around for 5,000 years and is descended from ancient Egypt. I neither believe nor disbelieve. It could be true, but whether or not it's true shouldn't matter, in my opinion. Many of the greatest and most revolutionary modern occult orders have been created by geniuses BSing the histories of their respective organizations in order to get people to take them seriously initially. I'm not saying that this is absolutely the case with AK, but it's possible.

Our history books are undoubtedly filled with errors and inconsistences about "facts" all across history for various reasons that we will never as a species realize or address. Despite this, people read these books and believe them. So, it matters not what really happened, but what people believe does matter.

The way I see it, reality is an illusion that we create. Believe what you want to believe. Believe what makes you happy. Believe what helps you achieve results in the real world.

No offense to anyone. That's just my personal opinion.
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by Jonathan on 10.09.13 4:16

No offense taken. People can speak freely and are entitled to their opinion in here. I understand what you're trying to say and I can see reasoning there, although that's not the way I see it as I believe in their ancestry. But that's just me. I do agree when you say that really isn't the most important thing though, as the validity of the teachings behind it is what really matters not how ancient they are. Some people get caught in the details instead of going deeper into what is being taught which is useless.
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by Victor on 10.09.13 8:24

Nightshade wrote:
BellBook&Candle wrote:If there is such evidence available why not just share it and silence the critics?
To formulate a question in such terms you can only be a newbie in Asetianism and the occult in general, to expect to catch some information with that kind of lure. Only a fool would think an occultist cares to silence the critics. We thrive from it!

Also I must say you haven't really been following Master Luis Marques' magickal career and teachings, or you would have noticed that he above everyone else would never give an easy answer to silence any critic.
Straight to the point. There is valid teaching in what you're trying to say.

Now on the subject, I can see why others have mentioned the Violet Flame to be a strictly Asetian concept. It refers to the embodiment of the essence of Aset, so that alone can explain why it would be Asetian in nature. It's the soul of Aset flowing in their subtle bodies. Now of course there are people claiming to be experiencing the Violet Flame in all sorts of scenarios, just like there are many who see the face of Jesus in a breakfast toast.

Many sites have piles of people claiming to be experiencing vampirism. Does that make them vampires? The same thing happens with the Violet Flame and those deriving modern spinoff teachings from it. Those things hold no meaning to me. The Violet Flame is an entirely transcendent concept that you cannot fully experience in a limited physical consciousness. As Maxx and Kalb said, its magickal process is of another reality and frequency.

You will not find proof in forums or words, but that doesn't mean people denying you that proof are ignorant or haven't found the answer. You can only find the ultimate proof in the Aset Ka itself, in the heart and soul of every Asetian. Allow for their sacred sigil to devour you and you will see what the Violet Flame means and how it has nothing to do with what other groups make up about it.
When Kalb recommends for you (and others) to learn from Luis Marques' tweets he isn't promoting him or asking for you to just go and read. He's pointing you at something much deeper, which is the energy found on the emanations from his words. That's part of his powerful magick and the teachings you can find there are beyond the meaning of those words but accessed through the portal to another dimension that opens if you can connect with that energy of his. Now that is the Violet Flame and it can only be felt.

It would be easier to understand this if you just use your senses, or like Maxx advised to find such answers in the other realm. It would make quite clear why the Violet Flame is an Asetian essence. You can't even begin to compare it to what other groups claim and say to experience. Metaphysically it is so overpowering that I doubt anyone with a certain degree of magickal awareness cannot find such answer alone.
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by N.Augusta on 10.09.13 13:42

Very well stated, Victor! I totally agree!

When one truly embraces this path, there is so much that is felt-- words cannot properly describe it all.

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Re: Violet Flame

Post by BellBook&Candle on 11.09.13 9:09

@Maxx. Firstly I would like to say, finally the penny has dropped. I'm surprised it has taken 40+ responses for someone to pick up on the fact that what the Asetians perceive to be the Violet Flame and what is being discussed within other groups are potentially two different things. My question was very specific and it would appear that some here are not as sharp as they would like to think they are. As for coming here to cause havoc I honestly don't know what your talking about. Do you actually perceive this discussion to be causing havoc? This is water off a ducks back to me. I haven't even got out of first gear and nor will I because what would be the point?. I came here to ask a question and gauge the response. If some of you have embarrassed yourselves in the process then that's unfortunate for those concerned. Anything you have to say about me is of little consequence. To address your concern regarding private messaging, you have misunderstood (again). I have invited those involved in this discussion i.e; Jonathan, Kalb, Nightshade, Danial and yourself to private message me if you wish, in order to get to know and understand where i'm coming from and to clear up any silly nonsense regarding my occult and metaphysical background. It is not nor has it ever been my intention to drum up support for myself or try to cause disharmony within this community. I've been observing this forum for some time and although i'm sure some here are serious about they're occult studies, there is also an element of BS and snobbery which isn't consistent with the image you are trying to portray.  Although you may find this difficult to believe, I don't have a problem with any of you. There's nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion. You seem to have taken this more seriously than I have.
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by BellBook&Candle on 11.09.13 9:25

@Victor. Hello there. I take on board what you are saying Victor and it may or may not be the case. There are plenty of religious/spiritual groups who claim to have the monopoly on what they believe to be the true source or true aspect of whatever power they claim to be part of. I think a lot of it boils down to personal belief and experience. I still wonder how unofficial this forum is and how unaffiliated certain members are. To speak with such certainty on Asetian matters and for it to be asserted publicly is interesting in itself, but for this to be allowed by the ever elusive, secretive and ancient Aset Ka makes it all the more fascinating. Just an observation.
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by Maxx on 11.09.13 10:08

Whether sharp or dull, at this point I do not look to you as being any gauge for any standard for truth at all.  After looking at how you approached all of this, both on the written forum and behind the scenes,  I stand by everything I said and I apologize for nothing....and that is a really nice way of addressing you. Others found the same thing.  As I stated, there is no such thing as a real secret.....
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Re: Violet Flame

Post by BellBook&Candle on 11.09.13 11:06

Maxx i'm curious as to what you mean regarding how I have handled things behind the scenes. If you are referring to my previous conversation with Victor, that was yet another misunderstanding as that conversation took place many months ago and had nothing to do with the current topic. I was merely letting you know that i'm aware of who Victor is and that we are acquainted. I haven't asked you to apologize for anything and i'm sure the others you speak of are more than capable of addressing me all by themselves. Since this discussion began I have not initiated any private conversations, so I ask again. To what are you referring?
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Re: Violet Flame

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