Primordial Speculation

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Primordial Speculation

Post by Matttt on 08.02.14 19:34

Em hotep,
I have been doing a lot of research on the identities of the two sisters of Horus, the two mystery Primordials.
These views are just speculation.
In the Book of Orion, the artistic cover for the Book of Ipet Resyt shows three distinct figures: A winged Uraeus, a crowned falcon, and a cat goddess.

The winged Uraeus is a symbol associated with many deities of Ancient Egypt. However, two distinct goddesses are Wadjet and Nehkbet; also known as the Two Ladies.

The goddess Wadjet comes to you in the form of the living Uraeus to anoint your head with her flames. She rises up on the left side of your head and she shines from the right side of your temples without speech; she rises up on your head during each and every hour of the day, even as she does for her father Ra, and through her the terror which you inspire in the spirits is increased ... she will never leave you, are of you strikes into the souls which are made perfect." (Book of the Dead. Ref)
http://www.gks.uk.com/egyptian-cobra-uraeus/



    Nekhbet, nxb.t (transliteration nxb.t), was a vulture goddess with cult centre at Nekhab (El Kab). She was depicted as a vulture with outspread wings, as a woman wearing a vulture cap, or as a cobra. Originally a goddess of local importance only, she became a protector deity of Upper Egypt after the merging of the Nekheb and Nekhen territories. After the unification of Egypt she was one of the two ladies, protecting the pharaoh, who wore a vulture and a uraeus or two uraei on a headband

http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/religion/nekhbet.htm

Nehkbet is associated with the vulture and if you look at the passage proceeding Liber Aternus III on page 60, It states "Vultures of shadow in forbidden beauty"
This could simply be coincidence, but I like to think not.

The next figure is the Crowned Falcon, which is obviously Horus.

The third figure is that of a cat goddess who I assume to be Bast(et).
I found this photo online of a statue of Bast, that seems to have a symbol that resembles the Dark Mark on it's chest.
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Re: Primordial Speculation

Post by Matttt on 08.02.14 19:36

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Re: Primordial Speculation

Post by Maxx on 08.02.14 19:57

Yes, the top mark we think represents the gland behind the 3rd eye area.....and it is not plain enough on that lower one whether that is the winged disk or not...or even a winged scarab.
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Re: Primordial Speculation

Post by Nightshade on 09.02.14 4:48

You presented good information there. It seems that Bast or Bastet has previously been speculated to be one of the Primordials or related with her. Both her and Sekhmet have been considered to be the leaders of the Scorpion Lineage but of course we don't know for sure. As for Uraeus in Wadjet I can see the interest there in connection to the Aset Ka but I fail to find any Khepri symbolism that is a hallmark of the Scarab Lineage since for Serpents we all know Horus to be the founder. The idea of Wadjet and Nekhbet as the Two Ladies is a good detail and how they were involved with the unification of Egypt as one single empire which appears to be referenced in Asetian texts.
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Re: Primordial Speculation

Post by Stapleraindrop on 09.02.14 5:23

Bast(et) and Sekhmet can almost be seen as two sides to a coin of the same God, though one was a bit more violent. The natures of Sekhmet and Bast are also extremely similar to that of Serket, a protector goddess.
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Re: Primordial Speculation

Post by Kalb on 09.02.14 5:41

Em Hotep,

Don't forget the syncretism that is strongly represented in Asetianism. All forces /manifestations can seen as One and there is an example of Bast and Sekhmet in Asetian Bible. Taking this example from AB and looking at the history of Nefertum, we can see that Sekhmet and Bastet were sometimes called his mother. Nefertum’s name is most likely to be interpreted as “that which is beautifully completed" and is also strongly linked to fertility associated with Hathor. The main temple dedicated to Hathor was in Dendera, her name literally means "House of Horus", or "Home of Horus". In the Old Kingdom was associated with motherhood, being referred to as the mother of Horus, a role which is later taken over by Aset. Edfu and Dendera, according to some studies are two observatories that were complementary to record accurately the celestial dome over the north pole and the south pole of the planet. Hathor has a strong representation in Asetianism...
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Re: Primordial Speculation

Post by Matttt on 09.02.14 10:25

Something that I just noticed was that these goddess were extremely popular among the common people, the mortals.
If I am not mistaken, the Concubine bridges the gap between humans and Asetians..
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Re: Primordial Speculation

Post by Divine 277 on 09.02.14 10:53

Hathor has an interesting history, and in one legend she was in fact the goddess Sekhmet, but became Hathor after she got tricked … ( i think I have a very very old post about this somewhere here on the forum .. hmm.. thinking )
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Re: Primordial Speculation

Post by Jonathan on 09.02.14 16:55

That statue of Bast has an Eye of Horus (Serpents) above and the wings of the Dark Mark on top of a Scarab below, making it winged as Maxx mentioned. If we could consider Bast a symbol of the Scorpion Lineage itself then we would have a representation of the three Lineages right there in plain sight. Quite cool.
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Re: Primordial Speculation

Post by Matttt on 09.02.14 17:29

http://www.houseofegypt.com/index17/graphics/bastet25.jpg

I found a better picture.
This is in the Museum of Cairo.
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Re: Primordial Speculation

Post by Stapleraindrop on 09.02.14 19:57

The role of cats in ancient Egypt was almost like that of pest control to the families they lived with. Interestingly, cats are rumored to also have domesticated themselves, being the only animal to do so. The role of the cat is similar to that of the keeper, protecting their family and going out to 'do the dirty work'.
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Re: Primordial Speculation

Post by Maxx on 09.02.14 20:08

Cats were sacred to Bastet, a sun goddess who represents the warm, life giving power of the sun. She was known as the goddess of joy and protector of women. She is usually represented as a lion or cat-headed figure. In the New Kingdom, the male cat was regarded as an incarnation of the Sun God and the female cat was equated with the solar eye. Feline figures may display a scarab, the symbol of the rising sun, engraved on the head or breast thus showing their solar significance. Hundreds of figures were set up as votive offerings in the temple of Bastet at Bubastis in order that the donor might share in the Goddess's grace. Actual mummies of cats were buried by the thousands in special cemeteries in the area. Cats protected the temples from snakes. The ancient Egyptians held cats in the highest esteem and the penalties for injuring or killing a cat were very severe.

The above would tell whether the cat displayed would be male or female because of how those symbols would appear and it would tell from what period it was created and from what section of the kingdom.
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Re: Primordial Speculation

Post by Kalb on 10.02.14 13:40

Maxx: I don't know If I agree with you in the way you put things. For example, the Thoth Tarot, the Sun is represented by Horus, representing a full deity, and is what I have seen throughout my studies, often representing Horus the Sun, where sometimes it is often mistaken for the god Ra himself. Now, there is a symbolism that can connect to the Power of Life to Bastet. Bastet it is not only the Divinity of Cats as a part of the Lineage of Guardians and the Scorpions when lose their tail can regenerate it, the scorpion can be associated with the legend of the Phoenix, so Scorpios, when suffer losses, end up getting redo Life.

Aset defeated the god Ra on Sep Tepy, it is likely that starting there, the 3 Lineages are strongly linked to the Power of Life. Other detail is the pyramids that represents the mysteries of Life and Power.
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Re: Primordial Speculation

Post by Maxx on 10.02.14 14:13

Kalb: what I posted above was a reflection of how all of the cat statues that are and were created like those pictured and sold over the internet today are created.  Just go and look at a group of them called Bastet that are sold on e bay.  Some of the photos I looked at were flat out silly.  From that view the marketing of so called Egyptian material the world over is laughable much of the time.  Thanks for clearing up how others probably viewed my post with having no connection to the real subject. If that is how you viewed it that means others did the same and I did not make it as clear as I should have.  That is why I posted saying that certain symbols on the statue would indicate whether it was male or female. Also, from what area of the kingdom it  probably came from. Thanks for clearing it up. You are the fire Marshall here.
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Re: Primordial Speculation

Post by Kalb on 10.02.14 14:39

Maxx: I did not say you were wrong. It's just my vision of seeing things. I may be wrong in what I said.
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Re: Primordial Speculation

Post by Maxx on 10.02.14 16:05

Kalb....I am saying we were not posting about the same things.....You were posting about the Horus God connection....while I was posting what those that produce media travel logs put in print.  You viewed my post as somewhat factual while I posted it because I viewed that information as not even connected to the real subject such as the Horus and Goddess connection. Mine came from a media site...the top half anyway.
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