Magick or Magic?

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Magick or Magic?

Post by Boogieman on 08.11.18 2:37

Might be the wrong place to ask this since Im new to this forum and don't know how you all are.

I pose the question if you are a practicer of esoteric arts or even just someone who studies them how do you feel about the use of the spelling "Magick" sense it pays homage to Thelema? Assuming your not a member of that "Religion."

After all the use of the term "Magick" created by Crowley, and was made popular by many people who fallowed his teachings is meant to distinguish his practice from others thus suggesting Crowley and the things he did and stood for to be what type of teachings he wanted people to follow?

Me personally I'm against it, and I think it only serves to continue Crowley twisted forms of magic, and not true magic.

Im curious to learn what anyone here thinks of the use of the spelling invented by Crowley vs others.

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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Lynskha on 08.11.18 2:43

Why would you say twisted form of magic? Can you sharw your thoughts? And I did not see any introduction, it would be nice of you could let US know a bit about you in the introduction part of this forum. Anyway... Welcome.
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Boogieman on 08.11.18 2:58

I actually didnt see the introduction part of the forum lol.

Well if you study Crowley and Thelema how it came about, why and how he used it, as well as why he was kicked out of the other magical orders and societies he was a part of. From trying to summon and control demons, to the way he treated women . Crowley was all about control and created a religion that perpetrated that control. All about whom he chose to make powerful and not as tho he stood above all others in the world. I know alot of people still defend and him and this and that, but if you look at the bases of what he used his influence for was all self serving and about him and his desire to be a god. Not to mention his drug problems.

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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Lynskha on 08.11.18 3:43

You are not considering all the positive  contribution. Would you say Asetianism is a twisted form of magick?
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Nightshade on 08.11.18 4:20

I feel that the term Magick has been adopted by occultists from many different paths and it's definitely not exclusive to Thelemites and the path of Thelema. I see people using it in a context of traditional witchcraft as well as ceremonial magicians. It's just a way to differentiate esoteric practices and metaphysics from stage magic and illusionism so I find that it's a useful word in that sense and no longer associate it with Crowley even though he coined the term.
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by nachtzehren on 08.11.18 11:30

I use magick to refer to occult-related discussions and magic to refer to high fantasy-style 'wizards and dragons'-style magic.
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Lynskha on 08.11.18 11:52

Like Nightshade and nachtzehren , the words are used to differentiate esoteric practices and metaphysics from stage magic and illusionism.
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Rhea Kaye on 08.11.18 12:55

I have a rather unpopular opinion in this regard. The Aset Ka uses the term "magick" and I think it looks better. However, if someone is a valid practitioner it won't matter whether they put an extra letter on the end or not. They will be able to use subtle forces regardless. Magick is magic when you look at it from a standpoint that discards the frivolity found in pop culture.
When it comes to metaphysics, I do not accept the practice of stage magicians and commerical psychics as any real form of magic. Discarding their legitimacy opens the phrases up for me- since I do not consider them real magic, I do not bother differentiating between them. I already throw away their false delusion of relevance, so it begins to feel like trying to separate glass from quartz in terms of phrasing. (Rough analogy but bear with me.) One is quite obviously not like the other. Both formed of similar elements but with massively different processes they took to get there, and different science. One has a chaotic molecular pattern, not being useful in energy work, and the other formed a pristine structure over millions of painstaking years, being a valuable amplifying tool in metaphysics with proven relevance. Those who think glass is equivalent to quartz (they're all over the place, claiming manmade smelted quartz aka glass is a good tool) haven't managed to sense the true energy fields of each, and failed to use the right tool properly in energy work. So, a natural barrier is there already.
In my mind I think, why set the two apart when there is already the natural veil of initiation and reality separating them? The two worlds will never merge, simply by natural design. For example, hordes of people claim to be a "real vampire" and despite the usage of an accepted term, as opposed to the flowery LARP-ish word "vampyre", they exhibit glaringly obvious signs of being misguided in ignorance of how vampirism works. And then you could say... Hmm!! If they knew how to sense energy they would be able to see why their x, y, or z theory on almighty vampires makes no bit of sense. The proper word didn't change the lack of proper alignment. The word is a powerful thing indeed but real energy and initiation is infallible, something that must be conquered and seen with a clear Eye.
That being said, I respect the choice of differentiating between the real and the fake with spelling variant. I also understand where people are coming from when they do so.
Concerning Crowley, I see why people would think negatively based on the things you mentioned. That man has had a lot of people worshipping him as supreme. But he had a lot of character flaws. A lot of truly disgusting things he did as well. My standpoint is this: he had the good and the bad within. I think his system is quite valuable to approach and study, keeping diligent balance in mind while reminding oneself that the man was not perfect. Not following him eagerly off the various cliffs he figuratively dove from, but instead striving for understanding over the concepts and teachings he has to offer while using it as a springboard into deeper study.
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Lynskha on 08.11.18 13:33

My standpoint is this: he had the good and the bad within

Exactly. It is like having to see from two different points of view. The man ( the polemic one ) and the occultist ( and wise ) . Some would say it would be wrong to make this differentiation, but I believe that everyone has flaws, and then being able to extract the good things can be useful.
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Boogieman on 08.11.18 19:34

"You are not considering all the positive contribution. Would you say Asetianism is a twisted form of magick?"

Ok what would you consider to be positive contributions ?

I dont see Aset KA as twisted, My meaning in that choice of wording is that when you take an existing pratice, change it to suit yourself and benafit yourself while ignoring all the laws within its own self which creates reckless problems for others.

In a sense what I mean by that is like a teen who claims themselfs as a "wicca" for the purpose of feeling powerful and " casting spells" paying little or no regard to the actual practices and laws in wicca.

I like and enjoy debating and learning others points of views I do hope that no one is taking offense to the manner I word things. It isnt meant to offend anyone either.

Nightshade, Interesting, thats a common feeling I think many people have, so you don't feel somethings origins holds power on its use?

Also I am curious if your the same nightshade I knew years ago..

nachtzehren, thats an interesting viewpoint. Takes a bit different path from stage magic and other forms.

Lynskha , I understand why and how its used, my question was about the influence from its founder.( of that spelling)

Rhea Kaye, very well though out and intruiging response. I agree that the true nature of a pratice doesnt nessacairly change but at the same time some pratices can be influenced. As regarding to Aset Ka they didnt use the term " Magick" until after then adopted it from crowleys influences, and I am aware of many whom still dont use that spelling even today. I do agree that everything has good and bad depending on how one views and interpenetrates things. Hell Nazis are often seen as evil yet they did alot for their nation at the time. No matter if it turned out good or bad.

Well this has been a fun conversation starter huh Smile

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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Lynskha on 09.11.18 3:30

When I asked of you considered Asetianism twisted it is because it has a lot of different things involved, including Thelema. Só if you consider Thelema a twisted form of magick and Asetianism has some Thelema inside its system I was curious if you then would apply this thought to Asetianism.
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Lynskha on 09.11.18 3:34

What is your opinion about Asetianism ?Do you consider it interesting?  Valid? A good system? A bad one? Useful?
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