Magick or Magic?

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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Rhea Kaye on 15.11.18 10:58

Sorry for the double post, but I'd like to add:

It is pretty cool to see the Violet Throne mentioning other authors and paths because those are cues for me to seek out those other works. I saw Crowley's tarot being mentioned here. I will say that the section on tarot in the Violet Throne was amazing. I used to scoff at tarot due to the popular image of it and the dishonest "psychics" misrepresenting it. I thought it was quite silly, a hoax or waste of time. I am grateful that Luis Marques presented a different vision of the tarot, one that made me stop and re-evaluate my former postion. I now own some decks. The Thoth tarot took a while to grow on me, but now I rather enjoy the artwork and the whole feel of it. Thanks to the section on tarot recommending both the Thoth and Rider-Waite decks, I was given a valuable push, the impetus to open my mind and let the magic of the cards' initiatory keys inside.

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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Lynskha on 15.11.18 11:06

Asetian teachings are very ancient.

Occult knowledge spread around the world has a great part of its roots coming from Egypt.

This concept of Asetianism, Asetian teachings will only make sense for those who study it.

We cannot deny that Egypt has influenced a lot in many traditions. So for Asetianists the link is exactly here, Asetianism ( that did not exist under this name at those times ) is connected to this Ancient knowledge.

Many other words could be used to describe the Asetians, since this word was not used, like I mentioned above. So we can say that Asetian teachings of course influenced around the world.

I have to agree that Crowley was probably influenced by Asetian teachings

Probably influenced by the teachings that came from Egypt and that now we name Asetian because it is related to the facts we know. But it only makes sense to us, do you understand? If you go and try to say someone about it, they won't get it.

Asetian teachings are the Sacred teachings we know, wisdom, knowledge that at that time did not have a name, a label...


But, again, Aset Ka is not a stagnated system, just like they mention. And more studies and research mean and advance even inside this system, this tradition and path.

Good thread,indeed.
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Lynskha on 15.11.18 11:07

It is pretty cool to see the Violet Throne mentioning other authors and paths because those are cues for me to seek out those other works.

The beauty of the kalleidoscope... One of the many lessons we can learn. The studies, the diversity, in order to enhance our knowledge, to compare, to discard the ones that we see are not ok, or compatible... but it is importante knowing and getting some experience about different things...
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Jonathan on 15.11.18 17:40

Lynskha wrote:Asetian teachings are very ancient.

Occult knowledge spread around the world has a great part of its roots coming from Egypt.

This concept of Asetianism, Asetian teachings will only make sense for those who study it.

We cannot deny that Egypt has influenced a lot in many traditions. So for Asetianists the link is exactly here, Asetianism ( that did not exist under this name at those times ) is connected to this Ancient knowledge.

Many other words could be used to describe the Asetians, since this word was not used, like I mentioned above. So we can say that Asetian teachings of course influenced around the world.

I have to agree that Crowley was probably influenced by Asetian teachings

Probably influenced by the teachings that came from Egypt and that now we name Asetian because it is related to the facts we know. But it only makes sense to us, do you understand? If you go and try to say someone about it, they won't get it.

Asetian teachings are the Sacred teachings we know, wisdom, knowledge that at that time did not have a name, a label...

How can you be so certain that the words Asetian and Asetianism didnít exist in some form or transliteration back then in Ancient Egypt? Thereís just so little we know about those times. For example Aset Ka, the name itself of the Order and the Legacy, all you have to do is place a throne and the raised arms together and you have the standard academic hieroglyphs that literally transliterate into Aset Ka.
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Lynskha on 16.11.18 5:15

Good point of view.
There is nothing we can be certain. Smile
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by MysticLightShinethForth on 16.11.18 15:52

I prefer the spelling "magick" personally as it seems to give a certain intuitive and appealing sense to it but which might be very subjective. However, it seems to me, simply by that addon, to give a different sense and/or vibration to the word that resonates with a different kind of understanding. "Magic" might give a similar vibe but it does not give the as scientific sounding mention, however silly that sounds, as "magick". "Magick" makes it sound, at least to me, as if it distinguishes itself from normal and general, fictional conceptions of magic(k) to something that involves mental control, scientific method and formulae, and a different sense of mastery attached to its notion instead of just superfluous animated spell-casting in fictional comics, movies or video games but which are of course inspired by real works of magick... yet nothing directly like it on a visual or even operational level, sometimes almost entirerly forgetting the intricacies of self-mastery in its characters of fictional lore where about anyone can wield magic in its fairytale worlds without those kinds of considerations for inner development, growth and maturity... apart from the wizards, like Gandalf, of course. Wink

Well, as said, this was a subjective evaluation and attaches itself only to my own conceptual mental imagery... perhaps. But, indeed, adding a "k" to magic, as in "magick", does make it sound differently appealing - maybe due to unconscious factors of general associations regarding the words.
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Rhea Kaye on 17.11.18 17:29

That's a good contribution from Jonathan, and it gives a valuable pointer showing which direction one can look to for study. I don't think the hieroglyphs were placed on the spine of the Order's publicly released books by mistake or in a superfluous way. The hieroglyphs do literally read "Aset Ka", a valuable tool for meditation too as one can sometimes feel the energy coming off them. Building off this, they do call themselves Asetians in their public works. Can't really get more official than that. The use of the word Asetian does not, in my opinion, limit them in any way as they are limitless, infinite and without boundary by their own immutable nature. Not merely a label, but a term Mr. Marques even uses himself - which, in my view, makes the word fully accurate and reliable to use while referencing them. Their nature is already one of infinity and eternity, so a name (Asetian) could never define them. I think it would make sense for there to be evidence of some form of the word Asetian, plus any of the other things they were known by, carved into the stone lingering from Ancient Egypt. An ancient transliteration of this term we now use today, preserving its meaning. The trick lies within understanding hieroglyphs and the vibration, definitely not something easy or even common to master academically. Still a really interesting point for contemplation. Either way, it's true that the information from the Asetian Empire and their time of rule is quite scarce, and there is nothing we can say for certain regarding this topic. There is no way to speak with certainty, since the Order hasn't officially released that information.

This is interesting, though. Certainly gets the mind going. Even if not possessing expertise in the art of interpreting hieroglyphs, maybe Asetianists can find this point to be of value, an inspiration to go comb through texts looking for those characteristic pillars in pursuit of a scholarly discovery.

There's a lot waiting to be discovered and grasped within personal reach, making this era an exciting time indeed.

Mystic, it's good you rely more on your intuition to guide you as to which word/spelling is best. It's a personal thing, a preference, and that "feeling" is important for setting the seriousness, the whole atmosphere and tone of your relation to metaphysical workings. I can see why you feel this way as well, given that popular culture does see much use of the spelling "magic".
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Lynskha on 18.11.18 3:38

There is much about the study of hieroglyphs, indeed. One of my focus of studies.†
When I mentioned about the term not being used before, I believe there is even some mention in Aset Ka books referring to the word being something more recent.

"what came to be known more recently by Asetians"†

No reference in historical books or anything gives a clue that the words itself did not exist or was not used to talk about Asetians and Aset Ka.†

Not that it did not exist before but my comment was that the word as it is used today was not in public.

Of course the hieroglyphs used represent Aset Ka, but so far it has no record like that. And did not appear in walla or anything.†

Secrecy? maybe, intentional? Probably.

So what I said above just refferred to the existe cor of the word, even in its hierogliphic way.

As mentioned in the book, Asetians influenced a lot around the world, in all kinds of areas, but simply in a secret, silent and elegant way.
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Lynskha on 18.11.18 3:54

In my humble opinion discussion wheter the word was there or not does not make a differennce since it does not diminish or deny its legitinacy or influence.
Its importance is there and can be recognized by those who are able to see and understand it..†


"Ultimately the aged locks and weathered doors of the Aset Ka cannot be broken by the devices of force, deceit or desire and its labyrinthine pathways may only appear to those who are loyal and true. As for everyone else... the Order will never exist."†

http://www.asetka.org/order.shtml
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Lynskha on 18.11.18 3:54

Discussing *
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Rhea Kaye on 18.11.18 14:21

I definitely see what you mean, but when I added my thoughts, I had this in mind.

"Prominent in European culture during the medieval period, these vampires of folklore have no historical connection the predatory beings of Ancient Egypt, sometimes described as the firstborn vampires but only accurately defined by the word Asetians."
-Introduction, page 42. (Violet Throne)
There is also this one.
"In this way by the Light of Aset and the Will of Her children a new spiritual kin was born, one that would master the centuries and forever haunt in silence, always watchful in the shadows of this world as empires fall and times shift. They are the Asetians."
-Book of Nun, page 85

What I mean is that, like Jonathan, I think we have no way of knowing some things for certain. For a modern day occultist to say "Aset Ka", it probably would sound somewhat different in vibration than if an Egyptian from ancient times were to utter it, since they would be proficient in the language, living it and growing up with it. Still yet, "Aset Ka" is the literal translation of those hieroglyphs. If we are talking about the "ian" on the end of Asetian, that ending likely didn't exist back then, but we might still be looking at the ancient form of the word. (If there were more secretive names used only internally, we don't know either.) It is also implied in their texts that, when they handed the throne over to humanity and receded into the shadows, part of the agreement was to keep some things scrubbed from history. The word is definitely important to the topic since words are magic and energy. I do think it adds a lot to the discussion, though not in a negative way at all. But, in my opinion, the word being important doesn't diminish or affect any of the teachings of Asetianism or any form of validity by its presence and discussion.

I look at it this way. Even Aset Herself has the "name" that She is known by. The more common people call Her Isis, but the truest name we know Her by is Aset. She has been described as Ain Soph by Mr. Marques, and there are a lot of implications about Her dark nature, the infinity of Her essence. Calling Her Aset wouldn't imply that She has a "limiting label". Do you understand what I mean?

But either way, it's an interesting topic.
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Jonathan on 19.11.18 3:41

This has been an interesting discussion. It's good to see everyone sharing their different views with knowledge and respect.
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Re: Magick or Magic?

Post by Lynskha on 19.11.18 5:57

I agree Jonathan.†
It has given me some new things to think about.†

As usual nice conversation present in this forum.
A pleasure to be part of it and be able to talk with you and learn.
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