Anti-socialism and the Awakening

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Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Aghrab on 11.05.09 22:39

Although I personally do have my own opinion on this, I do wish to hear the ideas of our members as well.

The awakening is a time in an Asetian's life, where he sets loose the being that lives within him, realizing who he truly is... a time where he leaves behind the human life and embraces the Asetian one. His Soul begins to realize a lot of things, and his feelings towards life changes. Now, what I wondered was, do you believe it can be possible for an Asetian to have been quite social before the awakening, and when he is awakened, compared to the past, he notices that he is deeply anti-social? How do you believe an Asetian would deal with this? Many people, Asetian or not, rely on socialism, as a part of their daily life. Without it they can lead to depression and mental or emotional collapse... Imagine an Asetian without the guidance and comfort of the other Asetians around him, how will he deal with this huge change in his life, even if he truly does want to stop being social? This can, in society, create many problems for him as well. Simply imagine school or work... it is based on being social, talking with people, working with them.

I am looking forward to reading your thoughts on this.

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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Syrianeh on 12.05.09 1:53

This has happened to me, over the course of the past two or three years. I used to be a true "social butterfly", the type who always knew where the party was at. But all the time I noticed there was always something missing. I could surround myself by large groups of people, but I would be always a a loss as to how to act in the middle of a crowd. It just seemed so difficult to "blend in" ; I always functioned much better on a one-to-one basis and utilized the crowds as props for my own own idea of a self-framing stage.

After all this time, and especially over the past year and a half, I have become much more honest with myself. This has led to some radical changes in the sense that, for better or worse, I do not like people, or at least most . There are exactly three persons right now in my life that I can be comfortable with and whose company I desire. No more, no less. At work, at social gatherings - those I cannot always avoid - and at other venues where people share the same breathing space, such as the subway, I mask myself or take the opportunity to predate.

This has meant that I have actually broken links with some people that were close to me. In some cases it's been them who have done it, having sensed something in me which made them feel - uncomfortable? forsaken?

And though I sometimes miss them, I do not regret it.

But I know that, while I would fare much better by living completely alone than by being constantly surrounded by others or in a constant spotlight, I still need the presence and the close contact of others that I can be myself with and whom I respect.

For what it's worth, there's my experience. It might be different for the actual fact of an Asetian waking up, or more radical. But I would not see it as a negative experience.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by ToBeSilent on 12.05.09 2:56

Syrianeh, once again you have brought forward a very insightful experience. I feel as I can relate to this experience of yours in some ways. This last year has been very hard for me, battling with having to go to university and a part-time job in customer services where there are so many people a lot of the time.

"Imagine an Asetian without the guidance and comfort of the other Asetians around him, how will he deal with this huge change in his life, even if he truly does want to stop being social? This can, in society, create many problems for him as well. Simply imagine school or work... it is based on being social, talking with people, working with them." - Aghrab, you have really hit the nail on the head so to speak. Since reading the AB I feel as if something is stirring inside of me but living in New Zealand without anyone to turn to to discover the truth has been hard to deal with.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Syrianeh on 12.05.09 3:36

ToBeSilent: we all here hail from different countries. In my case, being in Spain, I also feel quite isolated, and communion with those who can really touch your soul seems impossible. Personally, I trust that things will configure themselves somehow. Things will come to you when you put yourself on the right path.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by ToBeSilent on 12.05.09 3:50

Syrianeh, your words are encouraging and I thank you for them. I believe I have found what I was searching for and seek only to learn as much as possible along the way.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Jonathan on 12.05.09 8:55

Ahgrab, this was a very well thought thread, since it is something that surely many of us can related with our own personal history and life. Thank you for bringing this up in such a mature manner.

Syrianeh, thank you also for sharing how your personal life dealt with this issue of awakening and breaking with social standards, it is always good to see how we are not alone and not so different from the others in our community.

ToBeSilent, don't feel lost or isolated. In a way, we all are lost and isolated in our "human lives", so to speak, but also we are never truly alone as we have the rest of the community there for us. This is a great place to start that journey, since people in here are so mature and knowledgeable, that we never see the whole show off, arrogance and immaturity that is found all over in other vampire forums.
As Syrianeh said, we all come from different countries, cultures, societies and backgrounds, but that diversity is also part of our strength. In our diversity we can discover how we are actually much more alike than we expected and how together, all of us, and in loyalty as the Asetians always say, we can be strong... and reach far!
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Daniel09 on 12.05.09 13:00

I'm currently going through something very much like what is described in this thread. It's a slow process, breaking the habits that I've formed my entire life, but it's getting me more social, and I have a boyfriend now, who was also the one who broke me out of my shell. It's kinda neat, because even though we express ourselves in a totally opposite manner, underneath that we're really similar.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by ToBeSilent on 12.05.09 16:08

Jonathan wrote:ToBeSilent, don't feel lost or isolated. In a way, we all are lost and isolated in our "human lives", so to speak, but also we are never truly alone as we have the rest of the community there for us. This is a great place to start that journey, since people in here are so mature and knowledgeable, that we never see the whole show off, arrogance and immaturity that is found all over in other vampire forums.
As Syrianeh said, we all come from different countries, cultures, societies and backgrounds, but that diversity is also part of our strength. In our diversity we can discover how we are actually much more alike than we expected and how together, all of us, and in loyalty as the Asetians always say, we can be strong... and reach far!

Jonathan, such maturity and encouragement is very much appreciated. And reading your post has brought a smile to my face as indeed diversity, as I have now realized can be a strength. Learning from each other can help us to better understand what has been brought forward in our lives.

I thank you.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Dreamer on 12.05.09 21:28

I am not sure how an Asetian would ever deal with such a change. But I can imagine and visualize something...

Maybe for a Viperine it won't be that hard, because he is not that much of an anti-social being, at least not as much as a Guardian. For example, he may be deeply anti-social, but he still uses humans towards his own advantage... manipulating and moving them with his abilities.

For a Concubine it will probably be a bit of a shock to be such an outgoing being, and suddenly brought up to being criticized by the Viperine or Guardians for their outgoing and talkative ways, if that was the case.

But for a Guardian it will probably be the hardest, no matter if he was anti-social from the start or began to be after the awakening. As you said, Aghrab, imagining school is simply a huge torture for a Guardian. The Guardian would have to be working with people in ways he may not wish to... and for someone young, who may not know what to do, it will truly feel suffocating, because as it was mentioned, almost everything in this world is based on communication and 'working with each other'. From work, to school, to even going to the doctor's office. Just stay silent in one of your classes or detached at your work, and notice how many people will wonder 'what is wrong with you', and some even going as far as thinking you are crazy. All of this would be hardest upon the Guardian, in my opinion.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Phoenix on 12.05.09 23:25

Aghrab, you have started some thoughtful posts in the past day or so.

I imagine that an awakening Asetian's anti-socialism can vary by the degree in his/her human life that he/she has been integrated into his/her local culture and societal values.
If this culture was one of high and frequent family interaction and events (brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, sons, daughters, father, mother, uncles, aunts, grandparents - you get the picture) it might be difficult to quickly pull away. A gradual severing of the ties and distancing from the family may be required. The same holds true for a close religious community. In both examples, enormous pressure to conform to the group's beliefs and mores makes it difficult to withdraw cold turkey. If the Asetian soul asserts itself, the withdrawal will occur. And I would think the Asetian could do so in an appropriate, thought out manner.

Personally, I have undergone various socialization phases in my life. When younger, I wanted to fit in and be part of the in crowd. As I grew older (and hopefully wiser) I found the in crowd scene to be plastic and pretentious. (I remember one individual who was so phoney that I called him a micron deep and a parsec wide to indicate his complete shallowness.) I naturally drifted away from that emotional mistake, realizing that I had no need to depend upon others for my own self-worth or validation of who/what I am. I stated to seek answers on my own, not the answers my society, religion and culture so conveniently provided. I was no longer the baaing sheep, meekly accepting that which others in the herd said was the truth. Perhaps this is somewhat like an Asetian might feel.

I am Guardian by nature. My S.O. and I have a few close friends, more acquaintances and maybe 15-20 work associates - oh, and only a handful of close relatives. We depend on each other and much prefer to spend time with each other. We may do a weekend event with another couple, but rarely do large gatherings.

Bottom line is that I do not depend upon socializing for my self-worth and reason for being. I couldn't care less what the conforming sheep around me think, for their opinion has minimal value. I am polite, cordial and socially gracious - for to be demeaning or aloof only devolves my spirit.

Once one is capable of finding the answers by oneself, there is no need to seek approval from a social network. They likely would not understand your answers anyway.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Syrianeh on 13.05.09 1:54

Very insightful post, Phoenix. I can fully relate to that process of stepping out from the herd and being oneself without the heavy pressure of peers, society and family.

Daniel, you say that you're going through a similar process and yet you said it's getting you more social. Maybe your experience is different?
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Talibah on 13.05.09 9:49

A very interesting question Aghrab, and one I have had to put some thought into answering.

From my own point of view, being social is something I have always had a problem with. A while ago I had a conversation about the 'masks we wear' since I felt that was what I was, and had always been doing - wearing a mask in social situations for the sake of others and myself, in order to blend in.
I would always smile and nod in the right places during conversations, and pretend that I was comfortable, when in fact, what I really wanted to do was leave and be alone.

Thinking back as far as my school years, I was always the one who could be found in the library instead of in the middle of a group of friends sharing the same old conversation that in truth, bored me to the bone.

But, thinking about an Asetian point of view, I would have to say...(and this could be controversial) I feel a little envy towards them.
I dont believe any Asetian would go through the Awakening proper without other Asetians being there with them, or helping them in some way.
I can imagine the intense emotional states in the lead up to the Awakening could be incredibly difficult to cope with, and the various situations an awakening Asetian could find themself in could be almost too much to bear at times, but as I said before, I dont imagine the AK and other Asetians would leave one to awaken alone.
Which brings me to the point of my envy....to have others that truly understand how you feel, that have been there before and can turn a sympathetic eye in your direction, must be of great comfort.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Hellen on 13.05.09 13:25

Very interesting posts everyone and the multitude and amplitude of them , speaks by itself , it is so clear how this subject touched everyone in a way or another.

I think it could be a visible change , but felt maybe more by others not the awakening Asetian. I guess there is just the feel not to socialize anymore, a change in tastes and interests and stop doing the old things but not any psychological problems .
I think an issue and a burden could be the inborn magnetism , which makes the Asetian have to refuse people a lot and avoid them , find motives to get rid of them .Unpleasant before awakening , while still following social policies and rules ,but later on more and more easy.

One thing not so easy to eliminate , and which is I guess VERY annoying , is the biological family , with all the things that derive from it ,which I doubt are of any interest for an Asetian, but a burden.

And there is still the 'work for a living' , part of day .Which i guess it could be controled like Crowley describes in the practice to rule thought ,creating multiple personalities , like changing the ring from a finger to another , when the ring is on finger A ,no thought proper to finger B arises , and so on.

From all these ashes , rise , though , the need to be close to the ones afar.
And there are felings of sadness and loneliness many times untill the Asetian finds his destination ,so ..i think antisocial behaviour is more .. how is seen from outside .I don't think am Asetian is as much antisocial when among his chosen friends and Family .
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Daniel09 on 13.05.09 13:27

Syrianeh wrote:Very insightful post, Phoenix. I can fully relate to that process of stepping out from the herd and being oneself without the heavy pressure of peers, society and family.

Daniel, you say that you're going through a similar process and yet you said it's getting you more social. Maybe your experience is different?

It's somewhat complicated. See, my whole life I've been a conformer, because it was comfortable and felt good to rise to people's expectations. About 5 years back, I started changing, and it became harder to do as I had always done and still be happy. I began failing the expectations I had been given and broke down emotionally, transforming into a quiet, awkward, emotionless shell of myself. Over the years, the shell hardened, until the change I was going through started to finish. Then it was as if the shell was burning against my inner being, causing me to become vampiric, constantly depressed, and mentally insane.

One person has helped me through it, because he experienced the same thing I did a year or so prior to my experience, but had left it in a different way, opening up and becoming his true self while retaining depression and insanity. Since we've gotten together, everything seems to be healing up. I'm no longer insane, depressed, or vampiric, and he's not depressed or insane anymore either. We're both a little strange, in that we don't seem to possess the soul of a male or female. We have aspects of both. This healing process is making me be more open to my true self, and thus is attracting a lot of people to socially interact with me. Before, I was so awkward, people would stay away.

I still thoroughly enjoy being alone, especially with him, but I have found social interaction to be useful (and quite fun, because I've learned I can be quite a manipulator).
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Syrianeh on 13.05.09 13:34

Talibah, that was a great post. But please let me ask, if you don't mind my doing so, what makes you think that no Asetian would wake up without other Asetians assisting him / her ?

Which brings me to another question, and this goes for everyone else.... If an Asetian awakes, how will contact be made? Are we to assume that Asetians will "sense" it somehow and approach this individual, or should it be the other way around? And Asetians being as hermetic as they are, what would it take to be ... sort of... "taken seriously" ? Sorry for the na´ve tone of this question.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Syrianeh on 13.05.09 13:38

Daniel, I'm glad you have found balance, and someone with whom you can share your true nature. It is indeed a very liberating experience to find "your own". And thank you for the explanation.

You mention that your souls are neither male nor female... I never thought a soul really is either. In fact, I believe you can reincarnate into different genders along your existence.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Syrianeh on 13.05.09 13:41

Syrianeh wrote:And Asetians being as hermetic as they are,

By "hermetic" I meant secretive and elitist, not the esoteric or religious sense of the word.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Daniel09 on 13.05.09 14:04

Syrianeh wrote:Daniel, I'm glad you have found balance, and someone with whom you can share your true nature. It is indeed a very liberating experience to find "your own". And thank you for the explanation.

You mention that your souls are neither male nor female... I never thought a soul really is either. In fact, I believe you can reincarnate into different genders along your existence.

Thank you for your kind words. Wesley and I have both come to believe that no person is entirely male or female in essence. There is just a different balance in each person, some being more male and others more female.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Jonathan on 13.05.09 15:24

In the Asetian Bible, Luis Marques talks about the energy polarity of a soul. On how the soul may have feminine energy polarity, others have a male pole and some may even have both. This energy polarity, however, as it is explained in the Asetian Bible, is not necessarily echoed in the body that the spirit may incarnate while in the physical realm.
It is a very complex subject in my opinion...
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Daniel09 on 13.05.09 16:01

Hm, I never thought of it as an energy polarity of the soul. Never really considered male or female levels to be energetically founded at all, though it makes a lot of sense. This also connects deeply with psychology, which is an interest of mine. I'll be thinking about this a lot now.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Syrianeh on 13.05.09 16:07

Jonathan, I did not remember that part. It is certainly an interesting concept and makes quite a lot of sense.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Phoenix on 13.05.09 22:13

Daniel09 wrote: We're both a little strange, in that we don't seem to possess the soul of a male or female. We have aspects of both.

I believe that a lot of the pressures put upon us by societies and cultures are gender related. Here, in the USA, babies from birth are molded into the appropriate gender roles, starting with blue clothes for boys and pink for girls; boys are given toy guns to play with (the warrior) and girls given dolls (the child nurturer). This is so pathetic. X and Y chromosomal combinations have nothing to do with the essence of who and what we are.

Humans tend to anthromorphize the unknown - thus male gods and female goddesses. I would speculate that if one were to peel away the many layers of artificiality from our souls that what we are told is male and female do not exist. Our spirits are androgynous, as Daniel has experienced above. Perhaps a pathway to evolution is the separation from and discarding of our culturally induced gender stereotypes.

Think about it. Why would immortal souls need to have sex differentiation? Their existence is far beyond physical reproduction.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Talibah on 14.05.09 5:09

Syrianeh wrote:
Talibah, that was a great post. But please let me ask, if you don't mind my doing so, what makes you think that no Asetian would wake up without other Asetians assisting him / her ?

I'll try, although at times I find it hard to write down what it is that is happening in my head.

It is said to us in the Asetian Bible that the Awakening happens after the Dark Kiss in newborns, so from that one can assume that there is an Asetian presence of sorts. However, having said that, for those that are already born the Awakening can happen at anytime..so to slightly correct myself, for newborn Asetians I believe there is some assistance/intervention from other Asetians.

For those already born, and Awakening during their current incarnation, I believe the experience would be less of a dramatic change for them, as some aspects of it would be immediately familiar to them. Of course, that's not to say it is not a difficult time for them, especially if they are far from any other Asetians at the time, but since they are already born I would imagine that one of the first things they would be compelled to do, is seek out their 'family'.
It is in this seeking, that I would imagine the greatest difficulties arising.
Something within them would drive them to find the missing piece of their internal and metephysical puzzle, and this would probably cause them some distraction that would manifest in a lack of interest in the things they used to do...family, work, friends etc, as has already been stated.

To suddenly find oneself lacking the interest in being a part of the life they once had, must cause some considerable emotional hardship. But at the same time, their drive for 'something else' would be almost impossible to ignore. So, in short, they would spend a great deal of time, torn between the two emotional states (I believe) leading to depression and confusion..which in turn can lead to self questioning and doubt. All things the individual has to overcome before they can move on.

Irritatingly, I still have some thought to put into this, so I can make myself better understood, so I apologise for any inconsistancies I may have made during this long-winded monologue.
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by Daniel09 on 14.05.09 13:26

It never ceases to amaze me how similar an Asetian awakening is to my life of recent, as well as numerous other Asetian features. If I wasn't so sure that I am not immortal or vampiric, I might reconsider it, but I'm still a few weeks away from being able to get the AB, so I would especially not consider it if I have done no more than hear about parts and read the introduction.

This time it's the emotional hardship I can connect with. I doubted myself so much that I lost my very essence and became temporarily vampiric in nature. It's because I recently overcame it with the help of my friend that I've had a massive growth in body and mind. ((I honestly apologize if it appears inappropriate for me to keep reflecting about myself in these threads. If it's not good, I'll gladly stop doing it.))

As for awakenings in general. Can a non-Asetian awaken naturally, or become awakened by an Asetian? Kind of like unlocking a hidden Asetian-like nature beneath the surface that exists in everyone?
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Re: Anti-socialism and the Awakening

Post by ToBeSilent on 17.05.09 17:12

Daniel09, as to the answers to your questions I cannot be sure but if it is alright I am willing to theorize.

I think anyone, Asetian or not, can come to some sort of awakening within their lives or a self realization of sorts. Discovering a greater part of ourselves I believe is what we all search for in the end. As for becoming awakened by an Asetian, I would like to think that Asetians by nature are a very powerful or influential being so to speak. whether directly or indirectly, Asetians would contribute to a form of awakening within someone.
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