DragonCon 2009 - Why people see the Occult as a joke.

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DragonCon 2009 - Why people see the Occult as a joke.

Post by Jonathan on 01.09.09 11:53

DragonCon 2009 - Why people see the Occult as a joke.

Just surfing the web found another nice example of why people don't really take the Occult sciences and arts seriously, as well as why the real people and groups from the Occult scene don't open up to these guys and parties.

http://www.meetup.com/AtlantaVampires/calendar/11118645/

Atlanta Vampires?
As usual, Michelle Belanger shows up for the party in a variety of events. Seems like she begs to get invited in any part out there so just she can promote her stuff.

Anyways, this is a full show over fiction and roleplay. What is wrong with these people that keep mixing real life Vampirism and Magick with their gaming playgrounds? This is what bothers the real Vampire Community, when people keep playing around Vampirism without knowledge over its spirituality and metaphysics and use it just for these games and dress-up parties. Sick.

A quick look into the show we see that the big moments will be the presence of people from Buffy and Angel, StarTrek, True Blood, Smallville... and of course, how could we forget, there will be present actors from Twilight movie in an environment clearly filled with hysterical teens screaming for some kids that believe Vampires shine under the sunlight. LOL Really... how ridiculous can you get? Is this the stage of the Occult in this country? Is this how far we get, to be portrayed as completely idiotic to the Occult communities in other countries? No wonder Occultists in here hide and live in the shaddows... no one would want to be mixed with this type of crap.

Just like they say in their own promo: "We'll Party at DragonCon!"
That's their big problem, too much partying, dress up and roleplaying instead of serious debated and knowledge. How about some reading and learning you people? Nah... that you don't care about.

Please... just GROW UP kids! You all give a bad name to the Occult!
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Re: DragonCon 2009 - Why people see the Occult as a joke.

Post by Arkanos on 01.09.09 13:25

I used to feel this way but, it seems to me, no one anywhere on the planet seems much interested in stating even the first principles of Occult knowledge, that is in any clear and direct way (you know, the old The Above is as the Below, or the Greatest Secret is that which is Most Obvious, that kind of thing). In the absence of this and in the presence of massive Props all about (be it religion or role-playing -- that much different? -- or what have you) then I feel less inclined to rag on the props that people choose to use. It seems to me that an Asetian is capable of role-playing with the best of them (and if he thinks not then he may be engaging in only another form of role-play). Truth be told, all this vampire fandom is not a stain on the Occult because it is not, obviously, the Occult and those to whom it is a stain have, simply, an "Occult" or a "Wisdom" or a "Religion" that can be stained. BUT, be it popular vampirism, popular religion, or what-have-you, it is possible to tease out the hidden by-ways, to understand why it has the attraction that it does, to use it as a tool, a prop, for stepping higher (or to simply, and why not?, have fun). It's a festival and a winding out, in some small measure, of who we are. After all, we may say that Asetians were and are the original vampires, yet popular vampire lore came from somewhere. To the extent that we can read it as being from the Asetians, wonderful, to the extent not, then why hold it to an Asetian standard? It has no bearing whatsoever on anything that chooses to be a secret society. However, noted, the dialogue has begun.
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Re: DragonCon 2009 - Why people see the Occult as a joke.

Post by Maxx on 01.09.09 17:44

Of course, I agree. The problem is, first and foremost, that complaining about it will not change one damn thing. Those that have written about it testifying how horrible it is do not understand that each writer does not stop and realize that the world is not revolving around them...but they think it is ....therefore the object of the complaint will not view the topic in the same light. Like (the world will not view things you see through your eyes as you do) and Saying "time to stop this and line up and be sensible and do things as I think they should be done" will not make any kind of wave in the pond of events. That is why the Asetians have not done anything. How does one deal with idiots? By not rubbing shoulders with them and getting in a pissing contest with them, but by being separate and above that tripe.

I have made comment elsewhere that this type of spotlight is great as it draws attention away from the real subject and lets the kiddies have their play while the real Vampire or Asetian walks in darkness and is unknown. It is much easier to manipulate happenings you want to control like this.

Individuals such as MB, I say, more power to the cartoons and let them keep the spotlight. To view it otherwise would indicate that you want the spotlight away from them and have it turned on you.........
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Re: DragonCon 2009 - Why people see the Occult as a joke.

Post by Jonathan on 01.09.09 19:53

Maxx I agree with you, but you got me wrong. I don't mean I want the stoplight to myself, I would hate that. That does not mean I can agree with someone goin on TV pretending to be a vampire like MB and passing along the horrible image about the whole community. We may want our own practices and traditions to be secret, yes, but also we want to be respected as a community inside the real occult circles, and not to be looked at some bunch of crazy party people that live to get drunk and say nonsense. The Vampire Community, as a whole, the real part of it at least, is NOT a bunch of ignorant people like MB makes it sound. Unlike her we do know metaphysics, we do study and research, we do have knowledge. We don't live to roleplay. So while passing that wrong idea may be great in a way to keep us secret, which I agree, in the other hand it also makes us look shallow in the eyes of those that matter. Or maybe in the eyes of the Asetians themselves! With people like MB, orders such as the Aset Ka give less and less chances for Asetianists to get closer, to learn and to evolve... and that is a very bad thing for everyone in the community. That's just what I meant, sharing my thoughts on it, not that I can change anything by myself or alone.
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Re: DragonCon 2009 - Why people see the Occult as a joke.

Post by Maxx on 01.09.09 20:16

Jonathan, I was not even adressing you and made no referral to you. My comment was toward everyone all over the net and the media and was commenting on Arkanos statement. Not just you, but many, many people have complained about MB (I will not even give her credit by typing her full name if anyone wonders)

For instance, in the community I live, no one knows me or what I am or what I do or even what I represent. NO ONE. If some outsider came into my home, they would probably call the police as they would not understand my thousands of books and my altar with the sigils all over the rooms along with pictures connected with my studies. I associate with NO ONE. When I leave the town while working or travel, I talk with everyone ..........but no one knows me or what I am or what I represent. Things are not what they seem, ever. I do wear black many times, but I wear it because the color absorbs energy and I draw it into me naturally. I draw energy from the sun, Re. That does not go over good with the young Goths as they never heard of such.

This is the way of the Vampire. Silence.
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Re: DragonCon 2009 - Why people see the Occult as a joke.

Post by Arkanos on 02.09.09 1:17

Hi, Jonathan --

It took me a couple of re-reads of this thread before I was able to recognize my bias in posting. You didn't even bring up the subject of Asetians (though perhaps that's what you had in mind) and I blasted in with my usual and false assumption that this forum is strictly an Asetianist (Asetianistic?) forum. You were specifically talking about an elevation in dialog about vampirism and it perhaps not being best associated, in a convention, say, with more popular expressions of the topic. That does deserve some thought on its own terms.

I can see where you're coming from. A serious gathering of astronomers, for example, wouldn't be likely to share their convention space with booths touting Star Trek and so on. However, Star Trek conventions and the like have been know to have serious scientists aboard who might discuss something like "Is the science behind Star Trek even possible?"

I guess it comes down to, then, how much do the possibly serious discussions at a convention like the one you mention attempt to actually explain the goings-on on the more popular culture side? Do they imagine that they are explicating a reality as opposed to theorizing on a what-if?

I stand corrected on simply dismissing the whole idea as a fun and perhaps even useful expression, since there seems to be some serious effort (or at least some people who are taking themselves seriously) at arriving at the truth of a thing.

On the other hand, one wonders, of the two things, pop-culture expressions and serious (if that's what it is) inquiry, which would likely lead to the greatest slaughter.

I'm kind of content to imagine that slaughters would happen on both sides and in fact go wonderfully well together.

Anyway, I wanted to tone down some of what I said or the way I said it. It can be of value to write in a fever (one can discover nuggets of truth that way) and I enjoy it immensely but it's also good to step back and make sure that one is responding to what one thought one was.
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Re: DragonCon 2009 - Why people see the Occult as a joke.

Post by godofbattle on 02.09.09 12:49

Arkanos wrote:I used to feel this way but, it seems to me, no one anywhere on the planet seems much interested in stating even the first principles of Occult knowledge, that is in any clear and direct way (you know, the old The Above is as the Below, or the Greatest Secret is that which is Most Obvious, that kind of thing). In the absence of this and in the presence of massive Props all about (be it religion or role-playing -- that much different? -- or what have you) then I feel less inclined to rag on the props that people choose to use. It seems to me that an Asetian is capable of role-playing with the best of them (and if he thinks not then he may be engaging in only another form of role-play). Truth be told, all this vampire fandom is not a stain on the Occult because it is not, obviously, the Occult and those to whom it is a stain have, simply, an "Occult" or a "Wisdom" or a "Religion" that can be stained. BUT, be it popular vampirism, popular religion, or what-have-you, it is possible to tease out the hidden by-ways, to understand why it has the attraction that it does, to use it as a tool, a prop, for stepping higher (or to simply, and why not?, have fun). It's a festival and a winding out, in some small measure, of who we are. After all, we may say that Asetians were and are the original vampires, yet popular vampire lore came from somewhere. To the extent that we can read it as being from the Asetians, wonderful, to the extent not, then why hold it to an Asetian standard? It has no bearing whatsoever on anything that chooses to be a secret society. However, noted, the dialogue has begun.
I HAVE HEARD OF THESE PRINCIPLES COULD YOU EXPLAIN THEM IN DEPTH
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Re: DragonCon 2009 - Why people see the Occult as a joke.

Post by Arkanos on 03.09.09 7:08

There's a little electronic toy out there, can't remember what it's called, where it invites you to think of something, anything in the universe, and then in perhaps twenty questions or less it hones in on what you were thinking of.

Okay, think of God, the soul, or the spirit; it is quite adept at honing in on the thought you were holding. It will probably succeed.

Now, think of something in the universe of experience, actual experience, that is not obviously God, the soul, or the spirit but that is equally as impossible to conceive of and see if it doesn't hone in on one of those three as its answer.

If you were able to "stump it" in this way, then it is possible that what you actually "had in mind" is, for all intents and purposes, God, the soul, or the spirit. (The principle here I think is that whatever is impossible to conceive of is identical to whatever else is impossible to conceive of).

Find in nature (the lowly) that which can't be held in the mind, then, and you may have that very thing which is "conceived of" as the highest (as being beyond conception). Love that "thing" above all else.

The problem with talking about "it" is that this would become immediately dismissive as one endeavors to stuff it back into little boxes of conception.

In my more naive days, I spoke freely of it once to a man and his companion who were trying to proselytize me. The one condemned me straight to hell and the other stood there with his mouth hanging open.

Since then I pretty much honor those who I feel speak of the same things but never outright. If I were to tell someone (not you necessarily) what it was, the probable response would be "Stupid."

The point is that it really is nothing (really) and I really am no one special for "knowing" it. The secret ingredient is in how much you love it and in how much it draws you away from planting truth elsewhere, specifically in conception.

I believe that outlines the Above is as Below philosophy simply enough and I imagine that's all I'll want to speak on the topic.

How I draw from this a parallel to vampirism is something that I have yet to fully figure out. Smile
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Re: DragonCon 2009 - Why people see the Occult as a joke.

Post by Dreamer on 28.09.09 6:21

My take on this thread is probably too late. I recently learned what DraconCon is, and must say that I never thought "adults" who are supposed to be good leaders actually attend such childish and roleplay 'gatherings', or whatever they wish to call it... But well, this is MB we're talking about... role play is where she got her name from.
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Re: DragonCon 2009 - Why people see the Occult as a joke.

Post by ElizabethBathory on 15.11.09 11:55

They're just having fun, they don't know it's real. But as people say "be careful what you wish for." There are neg's and positives to all things, and it's easy to ignore the negative aspects when it's just a game.
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