Spiritual Copyright

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Spiritual Copyright

Post by RudraShiva on 25.10.09 22:49

Hello guys, this is a topic that results from the tread "musiq for Aset".

Spiritual Copyright is a concept and a "trend" that exists in the occult scene and it is something that I find absolutely annoying. In my opinion it is a behaviour that goes totally against what spirituality is supposed to be: the trascendence of the human ego/personality.

It is not strange to find some orders or temples whose members "recieve" "material" directly from the gods and goddesses they worship. This material can be sigils, mantras, rituals and so on.

And my question is, what is your opinion on those orders which "copyright" that divine material? Do you think the knoweldge that the gods deliver to us should be kept secret? or that we may have some "rights" on it ( like deciding who can use it, when and how). Actually I know some orders which wonīt let you use the sigils they use to contact the forces they worship. Why is that?

Another example of "spiritual copyright" is what sometimes happens in the practice of evocation. It is very common for a magician to "discover" a spirit and then that magician is supposed to own that spirit like if it was some kind of "intellectual property"!! What the fuck?

But I go even further, do you think a certain god can be represented by an order? When I think of these orders that "own" , for example,sigils, I just get pissed. Who do they think they are? It is like owning an island.

I respect all the work that must be done when manifesting a current, like researches, dedication, worship, rituals and so on. But to think that because of that you have rights over that spiritual current is, in my opinion, to misunderstand what spirituality is about.
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Re: Spiritual Copyright

Post by Saylamine on 25.10.09 23:21

I have never heard of the concept of spiritual copyright. While I have heard of specific religions or paths who keep certain spiritual practices secret, which I can respect, I think it may depend on the material, the situation, and the circumstances. But, I can see an objection to something like Reiki symbols being spiritually copyrighted, just as an example. If Reiki symbols were spiritually copyrighted, I think it may limit the ease of their transmission and use. The idea of owning a spirit sounds less than reputable to me also. This is definitely an interesting topic and gives food for thought.
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Re: Spiritual Copyright

Post by godofbattle on 25.10.09 23:28

I think that orders copyright things so that the wrong people( the delusional and confussed) don't get a hold of it. And so alot of people don't get money off of it
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Re: Spiritual Copyright

Post by Hellen on 25.10.09 23:30

I think we all are aware that gods do not deliver 'just like that' to anyone .
When I say this it comes into my mind the image of the notes made by Crowley on The Tree of Life marking his spiritual advancement which begins in Malkuth and only between Geburah and Cheesed it comes his reception of The Book of Law .
And this meant years .
How about those years of work ?

To me this intelectual property , copyright is a deserved sign of recognition for the work of an individual , be that work spiritual or any kind .
If one is lazy enough or unable to advance to make or receive his own knowledge or sigils or seals then the one who advanced more has more rights in my eyes .If we think better even the Gods gave him more rights .




Copyright put on a spirit or a god i must admit I never heard of .





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Re: Spiritual Copyright

Post by RudraShiva on 25.10.09 23:48

[quote="Hellen]To me this intelectual property , copyright is a deserved sign of recognition for the work of an individual , be that work spiritual or any kind[/quote]

That is the problem Hellen. Where is the line dividing between your work and the knowledge the gods give to you?

As an example, in the past I met some magicians from a very famous satanic lodge/temple. And these people "own" certains sigils that are, actually, "copyrighted". Well, the problem here is that a sigil represent a god or a spiritual being. It is not a meaningless drawing, as we know. So, by logic, I assume that if you have rights over a specific sigil, then you are saying that you also have certain rights over the spirit or god that it represents.

I think that an order representing a certain god, such as the Aset Ka, should be understood as a manifestation of that force, in this case, Aset. But definitely they should NOT be viewed as THE representation of that god.

Symbols, sigils, mantras and mythos representing a deific force are, in my opinion, culture, and therefore should not be possessed or "owned" by any human being.
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Re: Spiritual Copyright

Post by Phoenix on 26.10.09 1:43

Anyone who files an uncontested, properly in oder,fee paid copyright application with the US Gov't is considered owner of that material once approved - even if it came from the sprirt world. Previous publication of material outside the US is legitimate evidence of that creator's authorship. Material already in the public domain cannot be copyrighted, which is why you can CD's on eBay with dozens of old books on them.
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Re: Spiritual Copyright

Post by Aghrab on 26.10.09 4:16

I don't agree that the Aset Ka should not file a copyright infringement against the music he published. It contains material that belonging to the Aset Ka, published by the Aset Ka, and copyrighted by the Order. Besides, Ankhhape's disgusting actions deserves nothing but revenge, in my honest opinion. Someone who goes on Twitter saying he has paid for Luis Marques's iPhone, as if himself cannot afford to buy it so he has to make a request for someone like Robert to purchase it for him. This is by far one of the lowest public breakdowns I have witnessed, surrounding the Aset Ka.

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Re: Spiritual Copyright

Post by RudraShiva on 26.10.09 8:04

Hi Phoenix. Yes, I guess that is how the law works. Here in Spain we have the same system, Iīm pretty sure.

But what can I say? Fuck the law!
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Re: Spiritual Copyright

Post by Syrianeh on 26.10.09 10:03

Interesting topic.

This is the same way a piece of music or literature is credited to their creator via copyright laws. The law in this case does not interfere with your right to enjoy this work and learn from it. But when it comes to spirituality and magic, an extremely influential factor comes to play: power.


The exclusivity on sigils is mostly a tool of power. Many practitioners
of magic and religious Orders claim ownership over their sigils,
symbols and teachings. This not only protects them from being mimicked
but also renders them a certain power, as the energy of their rituals
depends mostly on the strength of their sigils and the practitioners'
Will, channelled through the symbology.

Not everyone is ready to use certain tools of magic, and, obviously, not everyone deserves to. It is a great responsibility and certainly not a game.

I think it is up to the Order's discretion to decide what part of
their tradition will be made of public domain and what will be kept
within doors. Take the AK as an example. All that's on the Asetian
Bible has been "given" out as public knowledge, yet carefully filtered
from their extensive secret and private tradition. They have their own private reasons and we are in no position to judge.

The same goes to all the other known orders and traditions: Golden Dawn, Thelema, Wicca, ToS, Church of Satan, and -heck- even the Roman Catholic Church.

Of course there are sad cases of money shamming and manipulation ("pay me and I'll let you in on the secrets of magical powers and eternal life, blah blah blah"). You no doubt have stumbled upon some of these. This attitude is probably the best way to realize that they are not to be trusted, and in no way valuable for your personal evolution.

As I see it, there is enough out there to be found , tested, learned and used, and enough ways to find answers. You just have to be ready to look in the right places.

Also, not all sigils are linked to gods or free spirits. In many cases they can be personal keys to the manipulation of constructs or servitors. You cannot own them as they will do nothing to you, but you can certainly grow wise enough to construct your own.
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Re: Spiritual Copyright

Post by RudraShiva on 26.10.09 12:59

Uhmm good points Syrianeh.

I understand the elitism that an order should have when dealing with the spiritual. If this elitism or separation between a "brother/sister" and a non intiated person is based on the activities of the temple, I agree with it. In fact, if we are talking about a true Left Hand Path order, sooner or later you will do certain things that canīt be talked about to a stranger.

However this is not what Iīm refering to. I am against the human, ego-driven behaviour that makes you think that you own a certain spiritual current. If I manifest, or re-manifest, a current based on the goddess Inanna through a temple or coven for example, I definitely wouldnīt feel with the right of "possessing" the true about this goddess. Definitely, the sigils, mantras and rituals that would be created or recieved from Her are not mine, but Hers.

This means that my temple wouldnīt be the representation of Inanna on Earth, but just a manifestation of her essence. Therefore the material would be out there for other people to manifest this power through them.

Unless there would be specific reasons for all the "secret materials", like legal reasons (and not "copyright" , ego-driven laws, but higher laws that could put in danger your social life) or spiritual reasons, I donīt agree with that orders that seems to monipolise that which is beyond them.
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Re: Spiritual Copyright

Post by Jonathan on 26.10.09 23:20

Syrianeh wrote:Interesting topic.

This is the same way a piece of music or literature is credited to their creator via copyright laws. The law in this case does not interfere with your right to enjoy this work and learn from it. But when it comes to spirituality and magic, an extremely influential factor comes to play: power.


The exclusivity on sigils is mostly a tool of power. Many practitioners
of magic and religious Orders claim ownership over their sigils,
symbols and teachings. This not only protects them from being mimicked
but also renders them a certain power, as the energy of their rituals
depends mostly on the strength of their sigils and the practitioners'
Will, channelled through the symbology.

Not everyone is ready to use certain tools of magic, and, obviously, not everyone deserves to. It is a great responsibility and certainly not a game.

I think it is up to the Order's discretion to decide what part of
their tradition will be made of public domain and what will be kept
within doors. Take the AK as an example. All that's on the Asetian
Bible has been "given" out as public knowledge, yet carefully filtered
from their extensive secret and private tradition. They have their own private reasons and we are in no position to judge.

The same goes to all the other known orders and traditions: Golden Dawn, Thelema, Wicca, ToS, Church of Satan, and -heck- even the Roman Catholic Church.

Of course there are sad cases of money shamming and manipulation ("pay me and I'll let you in on the secrets of magical powers and eternal life, blah blah blah"). You no doubt have stumbled upon some of these. This attitude is probably the best way to realize that they are not to be trusted, and in no way valuable for your personal evolution.

As I see it, there is enough out there to be found , tested, learned and used, and enough ways to find answers. You just have to be ready to look in the right places.

Also, not all sigils are linked to gods or free spirits. In many cases they can be personal keys to the manipulation of constructs or servitors. You cannot own them as they will do nothing to you, but you can certainly grow wise enough to construct your own.

Great post, Syrianeh. I found this the best opinion so far, when it comes to this subject, and the one I mostly identify with. You have put in words what I was thinking.
Thank you for sharing with us your views.
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Re: Spiritual Copyright

Post by Phoenix on 27.10.09 2:55

Unless there is significant power or defamation of one's character involved, is it worth our time and effort to chase after and punish these offenders? So what if we prevail? Our energies and focus have been drained away on a purpose created within us by an unworthy outsider.
We can only blame ourselves for not recognizing this.
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Re: Spiritual Copyright

Post by Syrianeh on 27.10.09 8:07

THanks, Jonathan. And yes, I see your point too, RudraShiva.
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