Are vampires human?

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Are vampires human?

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Are vampires human?

Post by Nicole on 12.11.09 10:51

Decided to bring up this poll to an important question: Are vampires human?

Share your opinion!

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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by RudraShiva on 12.11.09 11:30

Hello Nicole. Obviously, if by the word "vampire" you mean any being who can feed on life force, then the answer would be yes, "vampires" are humans in that we, humans, can use some astral and metaphysical techniques to feed from people and life in general.

However, as Luis Marques says on his essay about vampirism, that are just "humans practicing the art of vampirism", or something like that. If by vampire you mean an "asetian", that is, a being which is beyond the human conception, then obviously the answer is NOT, vampires are not human, in the same way that viras and divya, from the Tantric tradition, are beyond the mere human (pashu in Tantra)

As I like a lot the Asetian path, tradition and ways, at least as far as I know about it, I would vote NO, vampires are not humans.
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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Azrael on 12.11.09 15:36

Vampires, In my opinion are not humans...our souls are different and we may have different views and concepts than that of humans...
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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Nebibi on 12.11.09 16:15

I agree with you both, a vampire only has a human "shell", whereas our thoughts and feelings can be completely different to those of humans.
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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Jonathan on 12.11.09 17:15

I agree with what was said by all other users, vampires are not humans. They do have a human shell, a human body, but their soul is not human... their core, what really matters, is different. But keep in mind that this is a concept that is almost exclusively Asetian, since most other groups consider vampires as humans, particularly most of the "vampire community" in the United States will tell you that vampires are just humans with an energy need. Actually, they even condemn and criticize the Asetians for their deeper view that vampires are not humans. But on this I have to agree with the Asetians... vampires, real ones, are not human. I could never agree with a philosophy as shallow as what is, for example, marketed by House Kheperu and other superficial Houses.

Like RudraShiva mentioned, a good resource to explain that and, to some extent, define the vampire and vampirism, is the essay written by Luis Marques. One of the best texts I have read later in what comes to address the most common misconceptions within the modern vampire community. You can see it published in here: http://www.asetka.org/vampirism.shtml
Enjoy.
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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Daniel09 on 12.11.09 17:25

Agreed, as much as one can argue that the body an Asetian inhabits is indeed human, there is no question that they are not a human. They do not behave like a human, their needs are different from humans, and their base essence is not the same as a human's.
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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Aghrab on 13.11.09 0:54

I am glad that such a question was brought up. I sense that this pattern of thinking - believing that vampires are humans with a broken energy system - is something that belongs to the times long before the Aset Ka came out of the shadows. Asking such a question gives more reasons to bring up the Vampirism article by the Order of Aset Ka, and to enlighten the others who have the old, mistaken idea of vampirism.

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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Nicole on 13.11.09 11:03

Interesting...

Oh and great article this one by Luis Marques. Very enlightening over the natures of vampirism.

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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Insomnia on 19.11.09 15:42

Obviously not. It is like asking if dogs are birds. I mean, yes, the body is human, but it is the soul that counts, eh? Smile

Good for you for asking, though, kinda opens up the mind to learn the actual answer, to those who may be new around.

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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Azrael on 19.11.09 15:53

Insomnia wrote:Obviously not. It is like asking if dogs are birds. I mean, yes, the body is human, but it is the soul that counts, eh? Smile

Good for you for asking, though, kinda opens up the mind to learn the actual answer, to those who may be new around.

straightforward and to the point...
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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Insomnia on 19.11.09 15:53

Azrael wrote:
Insomnia wrote:Obviously not. It is like asking if dogs are birds. I mean, yes, the body is human, but it is the soul that counts, eh? Smile

Good for you for asking, though, kinda opens up the mind to learn the actual answer, to those who may be new around.

straightforward and to the point...
Well thank you.

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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Lyprith on 21.11.09 3:48

Since i personally believe "Human" is only a physical description and in no way can describe the energy body of anything i voted that yes Vampires are human in referance to their physical bodies.

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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Aghrab on 21.11.09 12:33

Lyprith wrote:Since i personally believe "Human" is only a physical description and in no way can describe the energy body of anything i voted that yes Vampires are human in referance to their physical bodies.
This means that to you, a vampire has anything to do with the physical body? Quite a wrong concept of vampirism. We must look at what a vampire is and what is not. Does the body matter? Not at all. This user asked if the vampire itself is a human or not, not "is the vampire's body a human?".

I am surprised and disappointed, that after being offered so much information, so many people still voted "Yes"...

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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by ElizabethBathory on 21.11.09 12:55

Does anyone know what vampires are supposed to look like? I know it's not like a "human."
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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Daniel09 on 21.11.09 13:35

Vampires look pretty much just like humans, because it is the body they inhabit. Viperines are known to be paler and frail looking, Guardians known to look more solid, Concubines are an unknown in physical description to my knowledge. But those are not constant descriptions, just general ideas of the majority of Asetians, according to Mr. Marques.
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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Lyprith on 21.11.09 13:56

Aghrab wrote:This means that to you, a vampire has anything to do with the physical body? Quite a wrong concept of vampirism. We must look at what a vampire is and what is not. Does the body matter? Not at all. This user asked if the vampire itself is a human or not, not "is the vampire's body a human?".

I am surprised and disappointed, that after being offered so much information, so many people still voted "Yes"...

Aghrab

I have no idea what your talking about, i in no way said that Vampirism was physical, i said being Human is physical. Vampirism is a Metaphysical condition of the soul, not the body which is human. I said that i believe no soul is specifically human, a soul is a soul. Since the question posed referred to the word Human i took that to mean they were referring to the physical body. I refuse to catergorize a soul as being human just so i can fall into line with all your beliefs when i feel so differently about it.

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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by ElizabethBathory on 21.11.09 15:24

I mean if not inhabiting a human body.
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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by ElizabethBathory on 21.11.09 15:26

Daniel09 wrote:Vampires look pretty much just like humans, because it is the body they inhabit. Viperines are known to be paler and frail looking, Guardians known to look more solid, Concubines are an unknown in physical description to my knowledge. But those are not constant descriptions, just general ideas of the majority of Asetians, according to Mr. Marques.

That was a reply to this, by the way.
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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Daniel09 on 21.11.09 20:18

ElizabethBathory wrote:
Daniel09 wrote:Vampires look pretty much just like humans, because it is the body they inhabit. Viperines are known to be paler and frail looking, Guardians known to look more solid, Concubines are an unknown in physical description to my knowledge. But those are not constant descriptions, just general ideas of the majority of Asetians, according to Mr. Marques.

That was a reply to this, by the way.

I doubt anyone can theorize what they look like. It's like trying to define a God's appearance. A God chooses what form it will take on, so an Asetian will appear different depending on the Asetian.
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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by ElizabethBathory on 21.11.09 21:33

Daniel09 wrote:
ElizabethBathory wrote:
Daniel09 wrote:Vampires look pretty much just like humans, because it is the body they inhabit. Viperines are known to be paler and frail looking, Guardians known to look more solid, Concubines are an unknown in physical description to my knowledge. But those are not constant descriptions, just general ideas of the majority of Asetians, according to Mr. Marques.

That was a reply to this, by the way.

I doubt anyone can theorize what they look like. It's like trying to define a God's appearance. A God chooses what form it will take on, so an Asetian will appear different depending on the Asetian.

I wish you would stop with the whole "god" thing. It makes it sound like you are willing to worship someone based on what they are vs. who they are. I know, or at least hope, you are just trying to express the concept of an entity that seems to be beyond all that is humanity, but I wish you would just state that instead of using a term that implies someone is entitled to worship.
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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Daniel09 on 22.11.09 5:56

ElizabethBathory wrote:
Daniel09 wrote:
ElizabethBathory wrote:
Daniel09 wrote:Vampires look pretty much just like humans, because it is the body they inhabit. Viperines are known to be paler and frail looking, Guardians known to look more solid, Concubines are an unknown in physical description to my knowledge. But those are not constant descriptions, just general ideas of the majority of Asetians, according to Mr. Marques.

That was a reply to this, by the way.

I doubt anyone can theorize what they look like. It's like trying to define a God's appearance. A God chooses what form it will take on, so an Asetian will appear different depending on the Asetian.

I wish you would stop with the whole "god" thing. It makes it sound like you are willing to worship someone based on what they are vs. who they are. I know, or at least hope, you are just trying to express the concept of an entity that seems to be beyond all that is humanity, but I wish you would just state that instead of using a term that implies someone is entitled to worship.

Make no assumptions about my beliefs. They are complex and hard to explain in a few words, since words have a hard time describing it. I use the word God to help describe a transcendent being. As far as worship is concerned, that is for the person to decide. I hold a great admiration and respect for the Gods, and I thank a certain couple when I make it through tough times. I do not worship though. I feel that can be a blind practice if done without care.

But be honest, isn't what someone is, who they are? It is well described that Gods are beings of great good and great evil, though the two polarities hardly even truly exist (in concept, because in the end it's how one feels good and feels bad, which is a subjective thing).
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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Jonathan on 22.11.09 9:24

ElizabethBathory wrote:
Daniel09 wrote:
ElizabethBathory wrote:
Daniel09 wrote:Vampires look pretty much just like humans, because it is the body they inhabit. Viperines are known to be paler and frail looking, Guardians known to look more solid, Concubines are an unknown in physical description to my knowledge. But those are not constant descriptions, just general ideas of the majority of Asetians, according to Mr. Marques.

That was a reply to this, by the way.

I doubt anyone can theorize what they look like. It's like trying to define a God's appearance. A God chooses what form it will take on, so an Asetian will appear different depending on the Asetian.

I wish you would stop with the whole "god" thing. It makes it sound like you are willing to worship someone based on what they are vs. who they are. I know, or at least hope, you are just trying to express the concept of an entity that seems to be beyond all that is humanity, but I wish you would just state that instead of using a term that implies someone is entitled to worship.

I don't think Daniel meant anything criticizable by his usage of the God terminology, as he wasn't stating any form of submission or inferiority, but merely referring to beings that are divine in nature. The Asetians are divine beings, born out of the divine spark of a deity, unlike the essence and soul of humans. So what is really the problem of calling and entitling someone of what they are? If they are Gods, why should we call them otherwise? In the ancient times like in Egypt there was never a problem of calling the Gods as Gods (netjer). That opinion seems to be a more modern one driven from the influence inspired by Christianity, that portrayed God as something that we must be utterly careful when talking about. If you are human, why can't we call you a human? If an Asetian is, in any way, a God, why can't him be called that way? I see nothing wrong about it, except what modern society may entail with its dogmas.
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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Marion on 22.11.09 11:27

Jonathan wrote: ... The Asetians are divine beings, born out of the divine spark of a deity, unlike the essence and soul of humans ...

Where do you think the souls of humans come from?
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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by ElizabethBathory on 22.11.09 13:17

Energy that belongs here? I would imagine a truly human soul would never feel lost.
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Re: Are vampires human?

Post by Lyprith on 22.11.09 13:54

In the Asetian Bible it says the souls in humans come from the "Waters of Chaos"

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