Why do they bow?

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Why do they bow?

Post by Insomnia on 24.12.09 22:44

This question and thread by no mean states that I believe the Asetians don't deserve all the supreme respect they get. They do.

I'm on Twitter, following Luis Marques and was recently reading the Tweets that people left for him, by searching for @LuisMarques. I came across countless posts of people bowing down before him. People who never met him, know him intimately or anything... they bow before him and some even sound like they worship him. Calling him "My Lord" and so on... I think this kind of attitude is respectful towards beings like the Asetians, Keepers and Asetian Insiders, like people who work for the Aset Ka but may not be Asetians themselves.

Now the question is why do you think people bow before Luis Marques when there are so many other occultists, who don't get such a treatment? Don't give me the obvious answer as "Well because he is an Asetian; because he is a child of a Goddess"... no, this is obvious and I know it already... But there's something deeper about it. I assume people treated him the same even before he published a book and revealed, a bit, of who he actually is.

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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by ElizabethBathory on 24.12.09 23:45

Yes, I find this kind of creepy. Not something I would personally do, but then again, I don't label myself as an Asetianist (where you actually worship Asetians). He is worthy of it, though. He's at a level of metaphysical ability that many aspire to, and he lives up to the hype. So, whatever, some people need a master, and he can be that for them.
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Jonathan on 25.12.09 4:29

I actually disagree that it is a matter of worship. I don't think people do it because they worship the Asetians or Luis Marques. Actually, the Asetians are not worshipped in Asetianism, only Aset is.
I believe people do it out of a strong sense of respect towards Luis Marques, being an individual that has reached some sort of spiritual enlightenment, and that is undoubtedly a leader. But he is a leader in the right sense of the word, he is a natural teacher, a guide... like the Ancient Egyptians would say, he is an opener of the ways. This is the true definition of a Master, someone that has the power to affect you and change you without needing to do much, and someone that in that change will teach you, even if you don't notice you're learning. I don't think any of this is connected with ego or worship, people don't bow out of any sort of fear or dogma, but simply out of respect and as a way to verbally or by gestures recognize their feelings for him.
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Daniel09 on 25.12.09 5:42

I personally feel that it is those who bow to all Asetians, rather than specifically Luis Marques, to be the best displayed signs of loyalty and respect. Mr. Marques put together this book to reflect the Asetian mysteries, and give even humans a taste of their divine family's inner ties. While he is the author, and indeed a great man, though I have not met him, he is one of many in a beautiful metaphysical family. If one bows to him, they are in essence bowing to all in his family, and I feel that's the way it should be. But that's just my personal feelings on the matter, nothing actually derived or known for certain. I know when I first began there was never a man I would lower myself to, but I do feel that right now, I would kneel before him, at the very least just to give my thanks for what the book has helped me through.
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Kalb on 25.12.09 6:44

Greetings, Insomnia.
Mr. Luis Marques as Victoria said is a Prince of Heka. Heka is the Egyptian word for magick, making reference the power of words, both written and spelled. The small words that Mr. Luis Marques say is a small example of Heka. Inspire us, we live with those words, we feel.. we cry..
Vampires are truly inspiring creatures. They allure to anyone's senses and awaken their most inner desires, fears and emotions.

My dear Insomnia.
We are Asetinists, You have no ideia what this represent for us. Follow Mr. Luis Marques is a privilege thing. He represent all we Belief.. He is a source of our Inspiration.

The expression "My Lord", "Bows", is an act of Respect, a form to say Thank you, you don't need my attention but i give you all my attention,
The Asetians deserve all the Supreme Respect.
we started to better understand the nature of Divinity and our true origins, beginning to evolve spiritually, accepting change and transformation..

Asetian Manifesto

"To become an Asetian is to die and be reborn"

I can say you

To become an Asetianist is to die and reborn and find your belief, your deep emotions, your inspiration...

We follow/belief Asetianism not because Asetian Bible or what the Asetians represent but because a process of Life's when we envolve pasts lifes..
Asetian Bible and Kemet was a Divine Gift...

Deep no?
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Insomnia on 25.12.09 16:00

Thanks for your inputs.

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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by ElizabethBathory on 25.12.09 16:25

I think before you can respect someone else, you have to respect yourself, and putting someone else up on pedestal isn't just acknowledging their greatness, it's saying you're far below them. I think it's usually sycophantic or just weak. I don't think that kind of worship belongs in LHP ideology. The truly loyal rarely make a show of it.
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Hellen on 25.12.09 17:42

Japanese people have a wise saying :
" Young rice stalks stand upright, the mature grains bow low".

Ojigi ( The Way of Greeting ) is a very important custom in Japan.

In Zen school bowing is a very serious practice which helps among others to get rid of the Ego , both Disciple bows to Master , and Master bows to Disciple .
"A Master who cannot bow to his Disciple can not bow to Buddha they say, since Divine is everywhere around us .

Tao sais :
"If you want to govern the people,
you must place yourself below them.
If you want to lead the people,
you must learn how to follow them ."

Jesus washes his disciples feet .

All of them tell that to bow is not a sign of being lower , but wiser .

What is truly wrong is to bow in doubt , and against your heart .
Everything would be very simple if everyone just follow their heart , focus to evolve and not simply follow attitudes .

We also must not forget that , for many people around ,the Asetians are their makers , their friends and their Sacred Family which they not just follow or study but they embrace them from the depths of their soul .



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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by ElizabethBathory on 25.12.09 20:39

The 1st thing cult leaders usually try to do is break down the ego, so you have no idea who you are anymore or what you stand for. There's a reason why even Luis Marques himself says the ego is good for some things.

Vampiric energy can create extreme obsession in people, especially if they reach out to you. That's how I can always tell who is one. Luis Marques doesn't even try to be this messiah-figure you set him up to be. There's so many times that I've thought to myself, if I based my idea of Luis on what everyone says about him, it would be so wrong.
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by ElizabethBathory on 25.12.09 20:44

By the way, I'm probably channeling someone's energy right now who's obviously kind of annoyed... "The truly loyal" doesn't even sound like something I would say.
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Hellen on 26.12.09 5:59

ElizabethBathory wrote:The 1st thing cult leaders usually try to do is break down the ego, so you have no idea who you are anymore or what you stand for. There's a reason why even Luis Marques himself says the ego is good for some things.

Vampiric energy can create extreme obsession in people, especially if they reach out to you. That's how I can always tell who is one. Luis Marques doesn't even try to be this messiah-figure you set him up to be. There's so many times that I've thought to myself, if I based my idea of Luis on what everyone says about him, it would be so wrong.



Indeed , that would be a ridiculous thought and entirely opposite to Asetian tradition , which promotes evolution and Self -realization as the backbone of every reincarnation .

However ,everyone with basic experience in the field of magick knows well the mirage of an inflated Ego , and the need to learn how to master it ,since out of control it leads to stagnation and reaching no further .



ElizabethBathory wrote:break down the ego, so you have no idea who you are anymore or what you stand for.


A bow can not break down your Ego and make you fall into Self oblivion .
One who is in touch with his Self does not have this fear .



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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Victor on 26.12.09 6:18

No one ever said that Luis Marques wants people to bow down to him. There was never any reference or mere hint from him or the Aset Ka that people should bow down to him, or anyone. People do so out of their own Will.

With this in mind, bowing in the Asetian culture is not a sign of lowering yourself. It is simply a cultural aspect, that is present in many other cultures, particularly in some of the oldest traditions in Asia and the Middle East. Like many said in here, it is a sign of respect. A silent gesture to extend your loyalty without the usage of words. This is something that most humans will always fail to understand, since they think with their ego, which tells them that they should never lower before someone, when in fact they spend their own lives lowering before their own Self. That is precisely what leads people into some of the empty LHP traditions, a cult of the ego and self-deification, that does nothing but lead people into delusions of grandeur. The Asetians hold no desires of ego and most especially hold no expectations towards mankind or being worshipped. I would dare say that some of the bows maybe even make Master Luis Marques uncomfortable, being something that he never asked for, but at the same time something he won't just fight against since that is the Will of those who are loyal to him and respect him. So he accepts it in a way of respecting them back and honoring their Will. Keep in mind it is nothing about someone lowering themselves, that is the typical human mindset, but there is nothing human about the Asetian tradition and their culture. If you want to understand them, their allies, their family and their followers, you will have to think outside of the box and grasp the mind of those who have seen countless centuries before their eyes...

Maktub, as an expert on the Asetian culture and history, would certainly be able to explain this better than I was. But an interesting thing is that the Asetian tradition works as a surprisingly effective buffer, when it comes to bring to the surface the best and worse in people. As we have witnessed even here in this community, and in several other places that deal more intensely with Asetianism, this tradition will test everyone's Will, everyone's abilities and power to an extent that they cannot even imagine. It will test their confidence, their resolve and their endurance. It will ultimately test who is ready to evolve, and who is to be left stagnant. It is certainly not a path for many, and like we have witnessed, most will fall along the way... we have seen in this forum and other places people falling into the traps of ego and easier paths, simply because they can easily feed their needs for attention or a safer road. Asetianism isn't safe. Nor should it ever be. Asetianism is only for those that will never give up...
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Saylamine on 26.12.09 8:44

Jonathan wrote:But he is a leader in the right sense of the word, he is a natural teacher, a guide... like the Ancient Egyptians would say, he is an opener of the ways. This is the true definition of a Master, someone that has the power to affect you and change you without needing to do much, and someone that in that change will teach you, even if you don't notice you're learning. I don't think any of this is connected with ego or worship, people don't bow out of any sort of fear or dogma, but simply out of respect and as a way to verbally or by gestures recognize their feelings for him.


I just want to say how wonderfully I think you worded the definition of a Master. I thought it was very insightful.
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by ElizabethBathory on 26.12.09 9:08

I don't think this post this post is about bowing (among other things) as a sign of respect,
but when it starts becoming more than that...perhaps a sign of worship, and people who are into the LHP because they
need someone to worship are just silly. But where the line between the
2 is drawn might very well just be a matter of personal opinion. When
you're dealing with a predator who works like a flame to a moth, it's a
pretty important to figure that out for oneself. That's probably how
the idea of gods and worship even came about on earth, it seems like an
expression of the sheer obsession one feels toward a vampire.
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Jonathan on 26.12.09 9:26

Saylamine wrote:
Jonathan wrote:But he is a leader in the right sense of the word, he is a natural teacher, a guide... like the Ancient Egyptians would say, he is an opener of the ways. This is the true definition of a Master, someone that has the power to affect you and change you without needing to do much, and someone that in that change will teach you, even if you don't notice you're learning. I don't think any of this is connected with ego or worship, people don't bow out of any sort of fear or dogma, but simply out of respect and as a way to verbally or by gestures recognize their feelings for him.


I just want to say how wonderfully I think you worded the definition of a Master. I thought it was very insightful.
Thank you very much. Smile

Victor wrote:No one ever said that Luis Marques wants people to bow down to him. There was never any reference or mere hint from him or the Aset Ka that people should bow down to him, or anyone. People do so out of their own Will.

With this in mind, bowing in the Asetian culture is not a sign of lowering yourself. It is simply a cultural aspect, that is present in many other cultures, particularly in some of the oldest traditions in Asia and the Middle East. Like many said in here, it is a sign of respect. A silent gesture to extend your loyalty without the usage of words. This is something that most humans will always fail to understand, since they think with their ego, which tells them that they should never lower before someone, when in fact they spend their own lives lowering before their own Self. That is precisely what leads people into some of the empty LHP traditions, a cult of the ego and self-deification, that does nothing but lead people into delusions of grandeur. The Asetians hold no desires of ego and most especially hold no expectations towards mankind or being worshipped. I would dare say that some of the bows maybe even make Master Luis Marques uncomfortable, being something that he never asked for, but at the same time something he won't just fight against since that is the Will of those who are loyal to him and respect him. So he accepts it in a way of respecting them back and honoring their Will. Keep in mind it is nothing about someone lowering themselves, that is the typical human mindset, but there is nothing human about the Asetian tradition and their culture. If you want to understand them, their allies, their family and their followers, you will have to think outside of the box and grasp the mind of those who have seen countless centuries before their eyes...

Maktub, as an expert on the Asetian culture and history, would certainly be able to explain this better than I was. But an interesting thing is that the Asetian tradition works as a surprisingly effective buffer, when it comes to bring to the surface the best and worse in people. As we have witnessed even here in this community, and in several other places that deal more intensely with Asetianism, this tradition will test everyone's Will, everyone's abilities and power to an extent that they cannot even imagine. It will test their confidence, their resolve and their endurance. It will ultimately test who is ready to evolve, and who is to be left stagnant. It is certainly not a path for many, and like we have witnessed, most will fall along the way... we have seen in this forum and other places people falling into the traps of ego and easier paths, simply because they can easily feed their needs for attention or a safer road. Asetianism isn't safe. Nor should it ever be. Asetianism is only for those that will never give up...
Simply amazing post. You always have a great way to put things into perspective and to properly explain harder to understand concepts. Thanks.
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Aleina on 29.12.09 1:48

I don't know about others, but when I bow, I do it as a sign of great respect towards beings I know are above me. A way for me to say "I understand the Pyramid Structure and I follow it".
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Syrianeh on 29.12.09 10:08

Bowing is a sign of respect and aknowledgement, whether or not the other person is above you in any sense.

In Eastern and Asian cultures bowing is a traditional way of formal salutation, just like the Japanese do. In the Western world, bowing is normally used to ceremonially salute royalty or religious leaders. In this latter case, it is clearly a sign of submission as well as a protocolary must.

To freely choose to bow to someone whom you regard highly, or just as a sign of respect, is a very different thing that in no way compromises one's dignity. Much the contrary.
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by ElizabethBathory on 29.12.09 11:19

From my experience, it's not really a choice. When I am around someone who I can feel is powerful vampire or magician or something of that sort, I feel as though the urge to respect them kicks in. It's not something I have to go out of my way to do, but simply understood. Does that make sense?
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Jonathan on 29.12.09 11:25

Syrianeh wrote:Bowing is a sign of respect and aknowledgement, whether or not the other person is above you in any sense.

In Eastern and Asian cultures bowing is a traditional way of formal salutation, just like the Japanese do. In the Western world, bowing is normally used to ceremonially salute royalty or religious leaders. In this latter case, it is clearly a sign of submission as well as a protocolary must.

To freely choose to bow to someone whom you regard highly, or just as a sign of respect, is a very different thing that in no way compromises one's dignity. Much the contrary.
I agree. It actually takes a lot of personality and self-confidence to bow before someone publicly without any fears or worrying for the misjudgment of others. I see it as an example of an evolved soul, in the case of the Asetian community. Most unevolved people, most particularly in the case of common human society, we can easily see the words "I bow before no one, only myself" which is a sad reflection of their ego and weakness. Someone confident and strong won't feel less or submissive because of a bow, it will actually feel enlightened when it is done towards someone they hold respect and see as an inspiration.
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by ElizabethBathory on 29.12.09 12:40

I think ego-worship is so sexy. If you do it right, you will eventually go through the ego (not around) and achieve a state of practically godhood. Or you'll be destroyed by your own demons. It's kind of a test of one's true nature. Like I said, so sexy....
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Dreamer on 29.03.10 21:56

He has an inborn Godly Soul, to my eyes. I find it just right, to bow before him. I know everyone has different feelings... it's really hard to express, though. We "just do it".
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Divine 277 on 06.04.10 5:53

Insomnia wrote:This question and thread by no mean states that I believe the Asetians don't deserve all the supreme respect they get. They do.

I'm on Twitter, following Luis Marques and was recently reading the Tweets that people left for him, by searching for @LuisMarques. I came across countless posts of people bowing down before him. People who never met him, know him intimately or anything... they bow before him and some even sound like they worship him. Calling him "My Lord" and so on... I think this kind of attitude is respectful towards beings like the Asetians, Keepers and Asetian Insiders, like people who work for the Aset Ka but may not be Asetians themselves.

Now the question is why do you think people bow before Luis Marques when there are so many other occultists, who don't get such a treatment? Don't give me the obvious answer as "Well because he is an Asetian; because he is a child of a Goddess"... no, this is obvious and I know it already... But there's something deeper about it. I assume people treated him the same even before he published a book and revealed, a bit, of who he actually is.

Probably they want him to turn them or they Just want to be close to him
Ehter way they are curious of the asetian way and they probably want to know what he teaches and so they treat him that way ... and hope that he will pick one of them .

I also follow Luis marques on twitter and i like his poetry, but i don't feel like bowing to him ...
Don`t ask me why, but I cant see my self bowing to know one that doesn't give me the same respect Wink
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Victor on 06.04.10 7:51

I disagree.
I believe that evolved respect doesn't look at ego or what we get in return. Certainly not everyone is further down the road of evolution to be able to see it this way. I respect whoever deserves respect, based on wisdom, evolution and honor, never because they acknowledge me or treat me nicely in return.

Adding to that, Luis Marques is a leader. Probably the most respected leader in the worldwide vampire community and the most recognized expert under the subject of everything vampiric and predatory metaphysics. I don't believe being a leader is a fair role, to anyone. He has so many people bowing down to him, trying to pay him some homage or simply trying to get some answers out of him, that makes it literally impossible to acknowledge everyone, for the obvious reasons. If Marques would bow down to everyone that bows before him on Twitter, his full timeline would made out of thousands of bows, and no wisdom and inspiring Heka as it is right now.
Not to mention that the reasons and motivations behind why people bow are very diverse. Some do it out of respect, but certainly there are those who do it out of selfish interest and in the hopes of getting something in return. And trust me, if someone goes to the Asetians with any selfish interests and not being humble, the best they will get out of it is total oblivion. Funny enough, many don't realize that.
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Divine 277 on 06.04.10 8:11

Victor wrote:I disagree.
I believe that evolved respect doesn't look at ego or what we get in return. Certainly not everyone is further down the road of evolution to be able to see it this way. I respect whoever deserves respect, based on wisdom, evolution and honor, never because they acknowledge me or treat me nicely in return.

Adding to that, Luis Marques is a leader. Probably the most respected leader in the worldwide vampire community and the most recognized expert under the subject of everything vampiric and predatory metaphysics. I don't believe being a leader is a fair role, to anyone. He has so many people bowing down to him, trying to pay him some homage or simply trying to get some answers out of him, that makes it literally impossible to acknowledge everyone, for the obvious reasons. If Marques would bow down to everyone that bows before him on Twitter, his full timeline would made out of thousands of bows, and no wisdom and inspiring Heka as it is right now.
Not to mention that the reasons and motivations behind why people bow are very diverse. Some do it out of respect, but certainly there are those who do it out of selfish interest and in the hopes of getting something in return. And trust me, if someone goes to the Asetians with any selfish interests and not being humble, the best they will get out of it is total oblivion. Funny enough, many don't realize that.

I see your point, but I don't see the point of worship, I don't think anyone should bow down to anyone... cause that makes them lesser in there own eyes, and to truly respect someone, you also should have respect for thy self, if not ,you do not know how to respect others.
Respect is totally another question.
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Re: Why do they bow?

Post by Daniel09 on 06.04.10 15:00

I think that bowing is a form of respect. A way of saying, "you have achieved much, and I respect it." Of course I do not know Luis Marques personally, so I cannot treat him with the respect of a close friend, but I can still show him the respect he is due for being able to move so many with a single book.
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