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Re: The Primordials

Post by Jonathan on 30.11.10 18:36

GodmanOmar777 wrote:
Jonathan wrote:I believe the Primordials would still undergo the process of awakening. From my understanding, that is the natural cycle in the Asetian life. However, I believe they would always be born/incarnated within the Aset Ka or near it, in a secure position so that they could be guided and protected by the order. It is a very high responsibility, not to mention that the Primordials are the true rulers of the whole Asetian structure and the Aset Ka Order, right after Aset.
so define near. do you mean that there would always be some metaphysical connection, or when you say near do you mean that they will always be physically near and physically connected. so do you think they could stop over each others physical houses then Question

I always felt this was a metaphysical connection for those primordials that reincarnated out side the order or there family.
because Asetians keep even there Identity hidden from there own kind, until they can validate them.
You are confusing Primordials with Elders. The Primordials are only 3, and those are not lost, confused or separated. Those are the rulers of the Aset Ka and the whole Asetian kingdom. Most likely the most metaphysically well protected beings incarnated in this realm. They are the ones that the other Asetians, and all the Keepers, would give their own lives to protect.

The Aset Ka would never lose trace of those 3, they are the true leaders of their world after all. Together, they are Aset herself.
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Re: The Primordials

Post by GodmanOmar777 on 30.11.10 20:11

Jonathan wrote:
GodmanOmar777 wrote:
Jonathan wrote:I believe the Primordials would still undergo the process of awakening. From my understanding, that is the natural cycle in the Asetian life. However, I believe they would always be born/incarnated within the Aset Ka or near it, in a secure position so that they could be guided and protected by the order. It is a very high responsibility, not to mention that the Primordials are the true rulers of the whole Asetian structure and the Aset Ka Order, right after Aset.
so define near. do you mean that there would always be some metaphysical connection, or when you say near do you mean that they will always be physically near and physically connected. so do you think they could stop over each others physical houses then Question

I always felt this was a metaphysical connection for those primordials that reincarnated out side the order or there family.
because Asetians keep even there Identity hidden from there own kind, until they can validate them.
You are confusing Primordials with Elders. The Primordials are only 3, and those are not lost, confused or separated. Those are the rulers of the Aset Ka and the whole Asetian kingdom. Most likely the most metaphysically well protected beings incarnated in this realm. They are the ones that the other Asetians, and all the Keepers, would give their own lives to protect.

The Aset Ka would never lose trace of those 3, they are the true leaders of their world after all. Together, they are Aset herself.
okay then what about this,the three first Asetians, directly transformed by Isis Herself, are still considered Elders, although the word Primordials is often used to descibe these very specific and special divine beings.
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Re: The Primordials

Post by GodmanOmar777 on 30.11.10 20:18

and do agree with you Jonathan about them being Aset all together,but is it possible for this connection to be only metaphysical.
to ensure there saftey.
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Re: The Primordials

Post by GodmanOmar777 on 30.11.10 20:31

above post I meant to spell describe, and below that post
I meant to say I do agree with you jonathan.

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Re: The Primordials

Post by GodmanOmar777 on 02.12.10 22:36

Jonathan can you answer this query for me? okay then what about this,the three first Asetians, directly transformed by Isis Herself, are still considered Elders, although the word Primordials is often used to describe these very specific and special divine beings.
but is it possible for this connection to be only metaphysical.
to ensure there saftey. meaning they were never lost, but had a hidden guardance/guidance or a family helping from the shadows, until the Primordial figured his or her way back to feeling and knowing Aset Essense was a part him or her than the ,so than this would'nt go against the Primordial Freewill which is a mirocosm of Aset Ka, because I believe that Asetians, and Primordial Asetians(3) can choose if he or she wants to remember all that he or she has forgotten? because all that wander/wonder are not lost!

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Re: The Primordials

Post by Divine 277 on 03.12.10 5:07

I'm not going to answer your question, since you are addressing the question to Jonathan.

But I will add, that there are much that is hidden in this world and out ...
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Re: The Primordials

Post by Divine 277 on 03.12.10 5:10

(sorry :S double post )
and something seems to be lost, but is also known, so it is not completely lost then, is it ?
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Re: The Primordials

Post by Jonathan on 03.12.10 11:46

Omar, answering your question I do agree that the connection between the 3 Primordials is a metaphysical one. I would even say it is more than just a connection or bond, since they are One. It has nothing to do with genetics or physical connections. Especially now, after having reincarnated so many times. But if they were once connected physically and genetically, being physically born of Aset during the Sep Tepy, in their first incarnation, or came to this realm through the body of a human mother, that I do not know. I can't answer that question and I believe no one else in this forum will be able to. It's one of the mysteries of the Asetian theology and a question that will remain unanswered until the Aset Ka decides. Maybe even forever...
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Re: The Primordials

Post by godofbattle on 12.12.10 13:15

I would like to present some arguments that I have heard aginst the Aset Ka and would like to know what you think of them. some believe that there is no third primordial and that the aset ka made this up. They believe that the Ak take some of the myths too seriously. For example the reason why vampires are elergic to the sun is do to Aset's relationship with Ra. They believe the AB is dangerous because it mixes much knowledge with things not explaned by facts that are said to be kept secret because it was made up?
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Re: The Primordials

Post by AndreiaLi on 12.12.10 15:09

godofbattle wrote:I would like to present some arguments that I have heard aginst the Aset Ka and would like to know what you think of them. some believe that there is no third primordial and that the aset ka made this up. They believe that the Ak take some of the myths too seriously. For example the reason why vampires are elergic to the sun is do to Aset's relationship with Ra. They believe the AB is dangerous because it mixes much knowledge with things not explaned by facts that are said to be kept secret because it was made up?

Vampires are not alergic to the sun. They are a bit sensitive towards it due to the relationship between Aset and Ra, although the sun dosen't "kill" vampires (like in fiction books), they are not fully alergic. The knowledge is only One, not "many". Every little thing described in the Holy Asetian Book is connected and "the sum of the parts makes one". Yes, I have to agree. The Asetian Bible is in fact dangerous. For the common eye, for some humans and for ignorants.
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Re: The Primordials

Post by Lunar Sentinel on 12.12.10 20:05

godofbattle wrote:I would like to present some arguments that I have heard aginst the Aset Ka and would like to know what you think of them. some believe that there is no third primordial and that the aset ka made this up. They believe that the Ak take some of the myths too seriously. For example the reason why vampires are elergic to the sun is do to Aset's relationship with Ra. They believe the AB is dangerous because it mixes much knowledge with things not explaned by facts that are said to be kept secret because it was made up?

You could say the same thing about Christianity and their holy book, or any number of other religions with anything resembling a holy scripture. The thing about the Aset Ka is they know very well whats only metaphorical and what isn't in the book they produced for the public... its up to us to figure it out.

Any yeah as it was mentioned above they don't exactly bust into flames in real life... at most physically they might get a very rapid sunburn or feel tried and ill after a long time out in the sun. However something to keep in mind is there are other sorts of otherkin that have the same issues, for example due to my lunar nature daylight is not my forte... I find it too chaotic and it makes me ill.

Another thing to note is a majority of books that contain occult knowledge are the same way... for example, ever try to read some of Crowley's works? If not, I assure you most of them will make your brain scream in annoyance. One of his books even says in the back to "burn it and never speak of the dread knowledge within it" just because he felt it was an easy way to deal with idiots who would blow their etheric foot off with magic. The Aset Ka seems to feel the same way.
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Re: The Primordials

Post by Victor on 13.12.10 1:16

godofbattle wrote:I would like to present some arguments that I have heard aginst the Aset Ka and would like to know what you think of them. some believe that there is no third primordial and that the aset ka made this up. They believe that the Ak take some of the myths too seriously. For example the reason why vampires are elergic to the sun is do to Aset's relationship with Ra. They believe the AB is dangerous because it mixes much knowledge with things not explaned by facts that are said to be kept secret because it was made up?
It is quite common for individuals and groups who lack the access, or the ability, to understand and reach a higher gnosis, particularly when it comes to knowledge of occult nature, to fight their own ignorance by condemning others who have a deeper understanding and insight into those mysteries. This doesn't apply only to Asetian knowledge, but to every kind of secretive information that has the power to touch the uncertainty and doubt found in common beliefs.

If you pay close attention, those individuals do a service to the Aset Ka, helping to keep their theology hidden and their knowledge even more elitist than it naturally is. Attempting to discredit, condemn and criticize Asetianism has been the very same thing that has made it more powerful and feared. Without noticing, and even unwillingly, they serve the Asetian purpose and Will.
Remember that the Asetians themselves do not seek for human attention or belief. Actually, they rather live in the shadow that has given them such a great amount of power over the centuries. They do no seek trust, acceptance or understanding, especially not from unable minds. That is left for a privileged few.

Now, if they think the Asetian Bible is dangerous, then I must say they are absolutely correct.
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Re: The Primordials

Post by Divine 277 on 13.12.10 14:53

godofbattle wrote:I would like to present some arguments that I have heard aginst the Aset Ka and would like to know what you think of them. some believe that there is no third primordial and that the aset ka made this up. They believe that the Ak take some of the myths too seriously. For example the reason why vampires are elergic to the sun is do to Aset's relationship with Ra. They believe the AB is dangerous because it mixes much knowledge with things not explaned by facts that are said to be kept secret because it was made up?

Who is claiming that there are only 2 primordial s... What is there facts based on ?
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Re: The Primordials

Post by AndreiaLi on 13.12.10 18:00

Yes I would like to know that too.
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Re: The Primordials

Post by Lunar Sentinel on 13.12.10 19:12

There being only two primordials wouldn't make any sense... there would only be no one to begin the third branch of the aset ka then.
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Re: The Primordials

Post by Daniel09 on 13.12.10 19:55

Lunar Sentinel wrote:There being only two primordials wouldn't make any sense... there would only be no one to begin the third branch of the aset ka then.

Just pointing out that's technically circular logic.

I can't comment on the spiel about less Primordials.
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Re: The Primordials

Post by Jonathan on 14.12.10 2:03

Victor wrote:
godofbattle wrote:I would like to present some arguments that I have heard aginst the Aset Ka and would like to know what you think of them. some believe that there is no third primordial and that the aset ka made this up. They believe that the Ak take some of the myths too seriously. For example the reason why vampires are elergic to the sun is do to Aset's relationship with Ra. They believe the AB is dangerous because it mixes much knowledge with things not explaned by facts that are said to be kept secret because it was made up?
It is quite common for individuals and groups who lack the access, or the ability, to understand and reach a higher gnosis, particularly when it comes to knowledge of occult nature, to fight their own ignorance by condemning others who have a deeper understanding and insight into those mysteries. This doesn't apply only to Asetian knowledge, but to every kind of secretive information that has the power to touch the uncertainty and doubt found in common beliefs.

If you pay close attention, those individuals do a service to the Aset Ka, helping to keep their theology hidden and their knowledge even more elitist than it naturally is. Attempting to discredit, condemn and criticize Asetianism has been the very same thing that has made it more powerful and feared. Without noticing, and even unwillingly, they serve the Asetian purpose and Will.
Remember that the Asetians themselves do not seek for human attention or belief. Actually, they rather live in the shadow that has given them such a great amount of power over the centuries. They do no seek trust, acceptance or understanding, especially not from unable minds. That is left for a privileged few.

Now, if they think the Asetian Bible is dangerous, then I must say they are absolutely correct.
Good point...
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Re: The Primordials

Post by Lunar Sentinel on 14.12.10 9:20

Circular logic? how so? to my knowledge there is one primordial for each of the bloodlines, so unless you either have one that's: A) not got one or else B) scrap one of the bloodlines you have to somehow end up with three.
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Re: The Primordials

Post by Jonathan on 14.12.10 9:24

Lunar Sentinel wrote:Circular logic? how so? to my knowledge there is one primordial for each of the bloodlines, so unless you either have one that's: A) not got one or else B) scrap one of the bloodlines you have to somehow end up with three.
Also the triple nature of the Asetians makes sense under a metaphysical approach, and how many other occultists and traditions believe for the energy and nature itself to be able to be split and interpreted. It's a pyramid.
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Re: The Primordials

Post by Daniel09 on 14.12.10 14:07

Lunar Sentinel wrote:Circular logic? how so? to my knowledge there is one primordial for each of the bloodlines, so unless you either have one that's: A) not got one or else B) scrap one of the bloodlines you have to somehow end up with three.

It's circular logic in that he was saying that the AB is being untruthful about the number of Primordials, and you say that the evidence that there are three is in the AB.

It's an "A = B because A"

Another example would be "God exists because the Bible says so." Circular in that the evidence for the claim is the claim itself.
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Re: The Primordials

Post by Divine 277 on 14.12.10 15:56

Would still like to know : who and why they believe there is only 2 primordial s ( what is their facts based on ) ..... ?

I am perfectly aware of that this will be considered a double post, and for that I am sorry...

Sincerely Divine 277
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Re: The Primordials

Post by Daniel09 on 15.12.10 4:30

Divine 277 wrote:Would still like to know : who and why they believe there is only 2 primordial s ( what is their facts based on ) ..... ?

I am perfectly aware of that this will be considered a double post, and for that I am sorry...

Sincerely Divine 277

It is most likely a feeling or based on the fact that there really is little to no evidence other than the AB to suggest 3. What I think may be misinterpreted is that they think there were 2. What I think they may have been saying is that there weren't any siblings to Horus.
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Re: The Primordials

Post by GodmanOmar777 on 17.12.10 12:58

Daniel09 wrote:
Divine 277 wrote:Would still like to know : who and why they believe there is only 2 primordial s ( what is their facts based on ) ..... ?

I am perfectly aware of that this will be considered a double post, and for that I am sorry...

Sincerely Divine 277

It is most likely a feeling or based on the fact that there really is little to no evidence other than the AB to suggest 3. What I think may be misinterpreted is that they think there were 2. What I think they may have been saying is that there weren't any siblings to Horus.
I believe there are three and I think there names are Horus,Bastet and Nubtata but I'm not 100% sure Suspect
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Re: The Primordials

Post by Divine 277 on 17.12.10 13:35

GodmanOmar777 wrote:
Daniel09 wrote:
Divine 277 wrote:Would still like to know : who and why they believe there is only 2 primordial s ( what is their facts based on ) ..... ?

I am perfectly aware of that this will be considered a double post, and for that I am sorry...

Sincerely Divine 277

It is most likely a feeling or based on the fact that there really is little to no evidence other than the AB to suggest 3. What I think may be misinterpreted is that they think there were 2. What I think they may have been saying is that there weren't any siblings to Horus.
I believe there are three and I think there names are Horus,Bastet and Nubtata but I'm not 100% sure Suspect

Why do you Think Bastet and Nubtata ?
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Re: The Primordials

Post by GodmanOmar777 on 17.12.10 18:47

Divine 277 wrote:
GodmanOmar777 wrote:
Daniel09 wrote:
Divine 277 wrote:Would still like to know : who and why they believe there is only 2 primordial s ( what is their facts based on ) ..... ?

I am perfectly aware of that this will be considered a double post, and for that I am sorry...

Sincerely Divine 277

It is most likely a feeling or based on the fact that there really is little to no evidence other than the AB to suggest 3. What I think may be misinterpreted is that they think there were 2. What I think they may have been saying is that there weren't any siblings to Horus.
I believe there are three and I think there names are Horus,Bastet and Nubtata but I'm not 100% sure Suspect

Why do you Think Bastet and Nubtata ?
I did my own research and I found out that bastet means the Ba en Aset
soul of Aset
so bastet fuse or merges power with sekhmet because Sekhmet symbolizes the destructive forces in Nature and in human nature, while Bast is everything pure and good and life-giving. Together, the sister goddesses make up a whole - the balance of good and evil. and i think together there energy forms the third primordial god nubtata, which is also called the mount of double earth or aker, and to add I know that sekhmet fuels the horizon sun horus with movement, when he ascends east or decends west into the under world, so the word nub comes from anubis and tata comes from the combining forces of the two lionesses ka.but like I said I'm not 100% sure about this Suspect
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