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Good afternoon

Post by Hawkmoor on 09.05.11 22:23

I have come here, as the proverbial sheep amongst wolves, to learn. I have come to offer what I know in the hope that it will be seen that I do not write, or utter, without careful research and, above all that, to engage in an open minded dialogue with equals.

I haven’t come to defend myself or my beliefs, nor to mock or disparage yours. I haven’t come here to create dissension or “drama” ~ merely to learn. What I am about to learn, here with you, I will take away and form an opinion on ~ I may do nothing more than share such with the members of my own web group because that is what we do; we find information, we discuss it, draw an opinion and file the information and conclusions for the benefit of our members alone.

I am open to any questions you may care to ask and, more than that, I give my word to give you honest answers. Naturally you may not like some of my answers but as the renowned British poet Edward Hodnett said ~ "If you don't ask the right questions, you don't get the right answers. A question asked in the right way often points to its own answer. Asking questions is the ABC of diagnosis. Only the inquiring mind solves problems."

Naturally, you have me at a disadvantage as you have had the time to discuss me, my ideals, my knowledge – or perceived lack thereof – my intents and my opinions, all without knowing me.

A little about me:
I have been active in the online vampyre community for around ten years now. I own/run a small web group called Darke Garde which first came into existence some 7 years ago as a haven and sanctuary for those who were suffering at the hands of harassers, attackers and defamation in the internet vampyre community. I am an amateur historian with some formal training in the fields of research and data gathering. I study the ways and nature of metaphysics and alternative paths from an outside vantage point. I spell vampyre with a Y because in the title of Dr. John Polidori’s timeless classic “Vampyre: A Tale” that is how it was spelled.

I have never been, nor am I now, a “role-player” apart from the fact that we ALL put on different faces and personas to suit whatever it is we are doing; at work it’s a business face, at home it’s a mother/father/brother/son/daughter etc. face and persona, on the sports field it’s an aggressive winning face and persona ~ we all play roles, everyday.

I have written, most lately, for an online community periodical as well as helping to start and establish two new community boards whose owner/operators promise something more than the “standard tired, demoralising and dried up” fodder that so much of the self-serving OVC dishes out these days. I have no great love for the OVC in general, such as it is today but there are some very good people out there who deserve change so that they can grow and change the face of the dinosaur that the OVC has become.

Although I own and run a house (message board), I am what is popularly called a “ronin” ~ I involve myself in what I consider to be just and proper causes because I am what is popularly known as a “rebel”, I can’t and won’t apologise for being either.

So, now you have me as you see me. That is who Hawkmoor was and is, I invite and welcome your questions and I promise I shall respect you and your beliefs, if you do me the same courtesy. I look forward to a meeting of minds, not clashes of ego and attitude. I can be contacted, at anytime, by email to: hawkmoor@ymail.com

Now, to the administrators of this site, you have a choice to make, either welcome me or tell me to leave, that is your right and privilege. I shall honour your wishes no matter what they may be.
Thank you for allowing me access to your house.
With compliments,
H.

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Re: Good afternoon

Post by Talibah on 10.05.11 1:08

Em Hotep Hawkmoor.

Welcome to our community.
The barrage of questions you may think is heading your way probably wont materialise in the way you hope. It might be better to ask some of those questions I suspect you have first.
Please bear in mind we are a no drama community. We are a gathering of mature and sensible people, many of which are true scholars in the field. Respect and a drop of humility goes a long way.
Other than that, enjoy your stay with us.
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Re: Good afternoon

Post by Syrianeh on 10.05.11 2:19

Welcome to the Forum, Hawkmoor.

I believe you might be mistaken in depicting yourself as a "sheep among wolves". There are no wolves here. Most members of this Forum are, as Talibah said, renown and respected experts who value debate and discussion on equal levels above anything else.

As far as I know, anyone who is willing to take that stance is welcome here.

Thank you for your thorough introduction. I hope you enjoy your stay here. May I advise that you read through the many threads and posts to get a feel of the place.

S.
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Re: Good afternoon

Post by Jonathan on 10.05.11 4:04

Hello Hawkmoor and welcome. I don't believe any of the admins in this community will ask you, or force you, to leave, unless you act disrespectful towards any of us. Of course this doesn't mean you have to agree with us. Everyone is entitled to their own views and set of beliefs, after all, that is what freedom is all about. We don't agree with everyone in everything around here, but we respect each other and exchange our experiences and opinions in the hopes that we can help others to learn and grow, as we constantly try to develop as well. No know one knows it all so we treat each other as equals and we do it with a great sense of respect and responsibility. The Asetianist community is unlike any other, and as we often say this, others look at us in disbelief and criticism, but it is true... the respect and honor that is found within the Asetianist community is something very rare these days, so we treasure it greatly. We have no dramas, deceit, ego wars, sin nomines and all sorts of nonsense that the roleplaying side of the OVC cherishes so dearly. This way of living, so strange to most of them, makes them think we don't even exist, or that we just lie.

Coming to this community you're certainly aware that we primarily focus on the Asetian tradition, involving their metaphysics, culture and spiritual framework. Despite that, we're open to discuss any form of vampirism, practice and magick. We have people from all sorts of backgrounds around here, from new members seeking wisdom to old timers that have been in the community for decades, not just in the vampire community as active members in different serious occult circles. You will find all sorts of answers around here, some may surprise you, but surely not all shall please you...
One of the particularities of the Asetian tradition, is once approached with an open mind and without fear, not focusing on our own ego and inner expectations of gratification, it unfolds before us as a powerful system that allow you to see the dirt in society, as well as the dirt that lives inside each of us. Like Master Luis Marques said on his Twitter, it potentiates liberation... but this process of initiation is by no means easy, it is all up to the strength, commitment and honesty of the Self.

Before you proceed, like Syrianeh mentioned, I recommend a thorough reading of many of the threads spread out in the forum. You may find a lot of nonsense, but you can find several gems as well, and it will probably give you much of the information you seek before you have to ask for it.

So, welcome...
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Well met honoured members

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 4:17

Good evening.
Thank you for your welcome Lady Talibah and Lady Syrianeh. It is a pleasure to be here and I used the reference of sheep and wolves somewhat “tongue-in-cheek”.

Naturally, I have questions but I would sincerely hope that the people who posted in the enjoyable reading that made up “Hawkmoor’s request” would come and take the opportunity of meeting me. I will keep my replies and responses in this thread, if that is permissible, thereby reducing any clutter and keeping “on topic”. It would seem that the “Hawkmoor’s request” thread holds the potential to become the very “drama” that you seek to exclude so I shall not, out of respect for your home, exacerbate that situation.

I do have a question, to begin, if I may:

If I were to say (write) something along the lines of “Blessed is the righteous man who shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother’s keeper and the finder of lost children…” – what would the honoured members here think of me? They would assume I am a movie buff and a fan of Quentin Tarantino movies.

If I were to say something along the lines of “The only true vampyres are those born of the blood and thus maintain the purity of the bloodline in their clan.” Then the honoured members might assume that I was a RPGer since, technically, the use of the term clans came directly from the old White Wolf Studios game Vampire: The Masquerade.

What if I were to offer something like this:
“Leijona tulee voimaa ja kettu tulee varkain, each are successful in their own way.”
- What would the honourable members assume of me then?

With compliments,
H.

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Well met Jonathon

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 4:55

My apologies Sir,
I believe I was composing my response while you were composing your welcome... I did not mean to leave you out of my response. I am honoured to be welcomed into your house. Thank you good Sir. I shall indeed attend to much reading at my earliest opportunity ~ beginning now Very Happy
With compliments and respectfully,
H.

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Re: Good afternoon

Post by Kate on 10.05.11 5:43

toivotan sinut tervetulleeksi,
vahvuus ja voivat on menestyvä mutta ei aina



Things are not always what they seem; the first appearance deceives many; the intelligence of a few perceives what has been carefully hidden
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Paljon kiitoksia rakkaat

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 6:29

Thank you Kate Very Happy
...and so, let me ask you this, from this exchange what would you assume about me honoured members?

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Re: Good afternoon

Post by Kate on 10.05.11 7:04

Assumptions made BY honourable members in haste would facilitate no-one, nor your need for validation,
Hawkmore seek your truth, your path will have many twists and turns, focus on YOUR journey not on what others think of you…

rauha sinulle


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Thank you Kate

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 7:11

Dear Kate,
My journey has been underway since I was sixteen years old, I am now 49... I do not believe that I need validation and nor do I seek it.

Lady Talibah suggested, in her welcome,
quote: "It might be better to ask some of those questions I suspect you have first."

I have simply asked my first question. I apologise if I have offended you in some way.
With compliments and respects,
Hawkmoor

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Other questions

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 8:02

Honourable members,
It is, perhaps, inevitable that our questions and answers will be construed in different ways by different people who come here. Indeed, I sense that in the most basic respects we think in entirely different ways and thus we have the age old problem of, in scientific parlance, "First Contact".

On the one hand we have the thoughts and perceptions of the members here, whilst on the other we have the thoughts and perceptions of Hawkmoor. Our task, if we wish to make it such, is to reach some basis of reference that we can use in order to communicate ~ that basis is twofold; firstly, the English language and secondly, vampyrism.

That, unless I am mistaken as to your intent, provides our platform.

In the interest of moving our discussions forward as painlessly as possible I have some further questions that I will put, all together, here.

I was particularly intrigued by the discussion on the age of the Egyptian/Asetian culture. I have some researches in proto-history that I would like to present and then I will ask my question.

To the best of my accumulated knowledge the ancient Egyptian histories can be described such - according to the British Museum website the history of ancient Egypt spanned the years 3500BC to 525BC
Reference

Two noted Egyptologists, Breasted and Shaw, have placed the years as follows:
J.H. Breasted (1906) placed it at 3400BC – 525BC
Ian Shaw (2000) placed it at 3000BC – 525BC
In the year 525BC Egypt was invaded and conquered by the Persians, lead by their then king Cambyses II and established the 27th Dynasty.

In 404BC Egypt gained independence again until Alexander the Great invaded in 332BC and was eventually declared Pharaoh.
Reference

It is an accepted premise that in 4000BC the use of tomb building and burial rituals started amongst the Pre-Dynastic civilisations and that in 3500BC the first Egyptian style hieroglyphics were developed.

I am fully aware that there are conflicting theories as to the age of certain of the Egyptian monuments and that the most notable conflict surrounds the Sphynx. I know of two schools of scholarly thought that place the possible dates of construction between 10,000BC and 2500BC ~ my mind is not made up on that one yet I am awaiting further developments. one thing I can say, with some degree of certainty, is that the worship of "Aset" was first known of as being conducted during the 4th Dynasty, some years before the originally proposed date of the 5th Dynasty.
Reference

Quote: "ASET is the original ancient Egyptian deity, who we find mentioned for the first time in Dynasty IV"
This particularly covers a time period between:
Breasted (1906) places it at 2900–2750BC
Shaw (2000) places it at 2613–2494BC

Question: If these dates are genuine this would lead to the conclusion that the Asetian culture is not older than 2613BC, correct?

With compliments and respects,
Hawkmoor






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Re: Good afternoon

Post by Divine 277 on 10.05.11 8:03

Welcome to you @Hawkmoor.

Yes. the fox and the lion has different strengths and weaknesses, just like everything else.

I Hope you find what you are looking for, in this community.

If I may ask ? What are you expecting to find here?

Sincerely Divine 277
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Thank you Divine

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 8:06

Many thanks for your welcome.
You may certainly ask the question Smile

What I expect to find here is knowledge, knowledge that I do not yet possess.

I know, it seems too short and sweet but that is my purpose in being here.
Once again, my thanks and it is my pleasure to make your acquaintance.
With compliments and respects,
Hawkmoor

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Re: Good afternoon

Post by N.Augusta on 10.05.11 8:29

Are you planning to write an article on the Asetians?
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Other questions Part II ~ Vampyrism

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 8:38

One of the most important questions I have is regarding vampyrism, more specifically its origins.

In an era where we are bombarded by movies about vampyres, books about vampyres, horrific news headlines about "vampyre" this and "vampyre" that, I look into the past and seek the clues to origins.

My researches thus far have led me to certain conclusions, one of which is that nobody knows when vampyres originated.

Firstly, let me share my knowledge in the matter:

The Indus Valley Civilization (IVC) was a Bronze Age civilization (3300–1300 BC; mature period 2600–1900 BC) that was located in the northwestern region of the Indian Subcontinent and flourishing around the Indus River basin. The mythology of this civilisation gave rise to the IVC Vedic religion which contains references to vampyric creatures.

Most specifically, Book 10, Hymn 182. Brhaspati of the Rig-Veda.

Contextually we can find Mesopotamian myths that pre-date the writing of the Rig-Veda:

4000 BC - Mesopotamia was located in the fertile crescent in what is now present day Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Syrian, Jordan, Israel and Syria. Mesopotamia was also located by two rivers, the Tigris and Euphrates.

Mesopotamian vampires:
Mesopotamian religion refers to the religious beliefs and practices followed by the Sumerian and Akkadian (Assyrian/Babylonian) peoples living in Mesopotamia (around the area of modern Iraq) that dominated the region for a period of 4200 years from the fourth millennium BC to approximately the 3rd century AD

Mesopotamia was an area rampant with superstition of blood-drinking demons. One of the most prominent being Lamashtu. This is, historically speaking, an older image that left a mark on the figure of Lilith. [1] Many incantations invoke her as a malicious "Daughter of Heaven" or of Anu, and she is often depicted as a terrifying blood-sucking creature with a lion's head and the body of a donkey.
[1] Hurwitz, Lilith, pp. 34-35.

The other area of scholarly knowledge that supports the Lamashtu as being the earliest figure of its type is the range of misconceptions that surround the 'Burney Relief'. The relief itself is regarded as being that of either Lilith; presumed to have been the first vampire by many based on notations in the Epic of Gilgamesh which are relatively unsupportable, Innana which is rendered unlikely due to many of the iconic details on the engravature, or Ereshkigala.

The relief is displayed in the British Museum in London, which has dated it between 1800 and 1750 BCE. It originates from southern Iraq, but the exact find-site is unknown.
Initially in the possession of a Syrian dealer, who may have acquired the plaque in southern Iraq in 1924, the relief was deposited at the British Museum in London and analysed by Dr. H.J. Plenderleith in 1933. However the Museum declined to purchase it in 1935, whereupon the plaque passed to the London antique dealer Sidney Burney; it subsequently became known as the "Burney Relief"

In this relief the depiction is adorned with a four-tiered headdress of horns, topped by a disk. This is a sign of a high-positioned deity in the pantheon as demons were never depicted with horned crowns.

There is a clear connection to Inana in the lions on which the figure's bird's feet rest. Furthermore, the owls flanking her were always connected with the night and darkness and the under, or more properly, netherworld. The scales on the lower base of the relief is a representation of the term Kur, which means "mountain, or foreign land" but also "netherworld, or underworld".
The bird's feet are a clear detail that points to a negative connotation of the female entity depicted. As shown, the wings droop downwards. At the time this plaque was fashioned the drooping wings were also a sign of an association with the netherworld.

The figure holds two rods and rings which in themselves are symbols of judgment and justice. Usually, the only deity depicted with one of those ring-and-rod-symbols was the sun-god, Utu/Shamash. This entity holds two of them, which shows that she held even more power of judgment about humanity than the sun-god. Doubling the rod-and-ring-symbol, together with the night-imagery, points to the figure being Ereshkigala - as Queen of the Netherworld, she not only has power over the living, but also over other deities and the dead. She is the ultimate judge.

Comparisons amongst style of similar gathered pieces place the relief in the Isin - Larsa (beginning ca.1940 BC) period at the earliest , or slightly later to the beginning of the Old Babylonian period (beginning ca.1830 BC)

I can find no information that solidly represents vampyric tales prior to the Mesopotamian religious texts although I have been able to find inferences of cannibalistic demons. I have not been able to find any specific references to Lilith being a vampyre in the Epic of Gilgamesh (as per translation from the tale of Gilgameš and The Hulu-ppu Tree By Samuel Kramer Reference)

Now, here is the problem and hence, my question:

If we accept that the Sphynx was indeed built around 10,000BC, who built it? and, since the earliest referents I can find with regard to vampyrism, or vampyric entities are dated around 4200BC then the first "recorded" vampyres must have originated with the Mesopotamian myths. How do we determine the existence of vampyres earlier than 4200BC?

With compliments and respects,
H.


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Well met N.Augusta

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 8:42

N.Augusta wrote:Are you planning to write an article on the Asetians?

A woman of few words I see... Smile

Good evening, rather morning for me now.
In answer to your question, not unless the Asetian's give me permission to do so. As I pointed out in my introduction, whatever I learn here I shall take back to my own house, for my members to discuss and there it shall stay, in our library.

With compliments and respects,
Hawkmoor

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Re: Good afternoon

Post by N.Augusta on 10.05.11 9:02

What is the name of your house and website? It would only be fair for us to read that which you will share there as you are coming to us for info. Also, we will hold you to your word that you will not post an article on the Asetians unless they give you permission. Wink
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Other questions Part III - Contemporary history of The Order

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 9:20

The third question uppermost in my mind is to do with recent history. In our researches on the Kemetic Order of Aset-Ka we have come across the following items:

I will ask, at this time, that this not be considered as criticism nor as any form of attempt to disparage - it is curiosity on our part, nothing more... naturally we are well aware that "curiosity killed the cat", so they say... however, we are not cats! Very Happy

A precis of our knowledge of The Order is as follows:
The Asetian Bible by L. Marques was published by Aset Ka on July 31, 2007.
The earliest references we can find on the Aset-Ka prior to that date back to 2005.
We have learned that:
Aset Ka is an occult Order, Europe based, and that goes under the name "Kemetic Order of Aset Ka". It is one of the most influential Kemetic Orders, as well as vampyric movements, inside the occult underground in Europe.
Its headquarters are based in the city of Oporto, Portugal and Aset-Ka is known for its traditional approach to magick and vampirism.
It's traditions are based on Left Hand Path, Black Magic and Dark Occultism, mixing Luciferian and Setian philosophies with Egyptian Magick, practicing mystical Vampirism and studying chaos magick and chaotic energies, as well as different forms of High Magick, energy work and rituals,
Being a Kemetic Order, they trace their roots back to Ancient Egypt, culture where they take many of their philosophical and spiritual works, as well as base magical system, religion and symbols.

The order's cosmogony and global religious principles respect the kemetic structure, especially the Heliopolitan one, and expand it with a more complex system of energies, archetypes and manifestations, with non-linear principals like the chaotic Apophis, the equilibrium and balance of Ma'at, the power achieved from knowledge, manifested by Djehuty, the eternal transformation and the four elemental sons of Horus: Duamutef on the East, Imsety in the South, Qebesenuef on the West and Hapy at North, among many others.

We are aware that:

In Wikipedia this page (The Kemetic Order of Aset-Ka) was created 28 February 2006 and deleted, under Wikipedia guideline GSD4, on 15 May 2008 (806 days).
Reference
NB: We have read through the deletion discussions that are archived at Wikipedia.

All YouTube content (24 vids) were deleted, presumably by their owner, although we have yet to verify such.

Obviously this raises a number of questions for us and, as I say, arouses our curiosity but the first and foremost is, there seems to have been a conscious effort to avoid having information about the Aset-Ka available for seekers, is this indeed a group policy and if so why?

Since all of this information is freely available on the internet, in the public domain, I presume it is not sensitive information. That being said, however, if the administration feel it to be inappropriate for discussion then please remove it.

With compliments and respectfully,
Hawkmoor







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As you wish dear lady

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 9:35

N.Augusta wrote:What is the name of your house and website? It would only be fair for us to read that which you will share there as you are coming to us for info. Also, we will hold you to your word that you will not post an article on the Asetians unless they give you permission. Wink

The name of my website is The Tower Wordpress but that is common knowledge, an officer has been watching and reporting traffic to me and I am aware that your organisation has been visiting there, indeed, a routine check of connecting links led us to Lady Natalia's first post about me ~ you and any other member are welcome to do this, and that is not, I assure you, a blatant attempt to raise traffic ~ it is an open and congenial invitation. Smile

The house I own and manage is named Darke Garde, it may be found on the Yuku system. Access can be gained by application at [url][/url]Darke Garde ~ A Circle of Firelight

As to your second point, from Jonathon's welcome I sense that honour and integrity are prized highly here, yes? Well, let me put your mind at rest. I am descended, directly, from an honourable clan line in Scotland, cousins to the Royal Stewarts. One of the tenets of the lineage is oath and honour. Thus, I make my oath that I will hold myself to my words. While that may seem somewhat archaic to many, those of your members with knowledge of the Scots clans will find my words to be very reassuring.

Thank you for your message.
With compliments and respects,
Hawkmoor


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Other questions Part IV ~ Cause and effect

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 9:50

Another question that has been posed by one of my administrators is in reference to the events that have brought us together here.

Firstly, I will freely admit that under the "Fair use" clause of the copyright acts of three major countries, I took for reasons of education, portions of a certain statement of The Order to use in one of my Wordpress presentations. It was not my intent to disparage, ridicule or humiliate any member or the organisation. I used it in an exchange on a very serious matter that was afoot at the time.

One of my officers flagged the visit by someone from here and routinely checked the link ~ we do that to ensure we are not being represented in places that could serve us harmfully.

I was passed the link to Lady Natalia's post to read, which I did.

I was, I will admit, bemused to find that a message board that eschews "drama" so completely had used portions of my post in an apparently inflammatory message that carried a hint of defamatory remarks with it. it simply struck me as curious in light of the discussions that followed about me.

Hence, when I became aware of the outstanding "invitations" I came to make contact. I will offer apology if I have offended anybody with my use of materials about The Order.

The only question that remains in my mind is, if "drama" is completely banned herein why did the "Hawkmoor's Request" thread grow so? Would it not have been better to have approached me about the issue?

Again, I do not wish anyone to take umbrage at this, I simply am curious and mean no insult nor injury to any.
With compliments and respectfully,
Hawkmoor

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An invitation

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 10:15

Hawkmoor wrote: The house I own and manage is named Darke Garde, it may be found on the Yuku system. Access can be gained by application at [url][/url]Darke Garde ~ A Circle of Firelight

House Darke Garde consists of two levels of entry. The first level is Darke Garde ~ A Circle of Firelight and the second is Darke Garde

The normal procedure for membership is that a member spend a certain amount of time in our "Outer Forum" A Circle of Firelight, a probationary period if you will, before being assessed for membership to the "Inner" house.

I will extend an invitation, since you have been so kind as to allow me access here, to one ambassador from your house to join us there and I will discuss immediate access to The Garde with my fellow administrators.

I should note that I own and manage, with the help of a co-owner/administrator and other officers, the message boards of Darke Garde but I do not make unilateral decisions there. We are a democratic house and my actions are subject to our charter as are the actions of any other of our members.

I trust this will suit your requirements?
With compliments and respectfully,
Hawkmoor

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That is all I have for now

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 10:21

Smile Now, my new found colleagues, I will "shut up" so to speak,
I am concerned that you may be thinking "spammer" since I have brought everything to the table at once... it was not my original intention but seemed, quite early on, to be for the best.

That was why I made mention that I would keep it all in one place lest we start a merry jig all about your home.

I welcome your comments and look forward, with keen interest, to your replies and to learning new things.

That and the fact it is now after 2 in the morning here and my...ahhh..."sugar rush" has worn off tongue ~ so, merry part for now.

With compliments and respects,
Hawkmoor

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Re: Good afternoon

Post by N.Augusta on 10.05.11 11:21

http://www.realvampirenews.com/2011/05/a-note-from-the-editor/ the editor mentions that Hawkmoor goes by the name T'Nite on the realvampirenews.com

Also, you can see on the VCN FB page where people have talked about articles from both Hawkmoor and T'Nite. https://www.facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_168232149883059&ap=1 Just look at links posted there that are from the RealVampireNews. Not many nice comments there in favor of Hawkmoor.

That was just an FYI for the folks here. I'm sure you understand, Hawkmoor, that we keep each other very well informed here.

So, it is curious, Hawkmoor, you have much more critical comments around the OVC than you did on one thread here that was posted back in January regrading an article you wrote. We don't talk about your articles here (only one) and you've written so many others since then, which as you know, your articles are addressed and commented on frequently on the VCN FB page. Since you write opinion articles, surely you know they will receive criticism. Surely you are not going around every forum on the Web that has criticized an article you've written. Are you? Just curious.



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Re: Good afternoon

Post by Jonathan on 10.05.11 11:55

Hawkmoor wrote:
Question: If these dates are genuine this would lead to the conclusion that the Asetian culture is not older than 2613BC, correct?
I am not the best person to answer your question on dates, as it is not my field of expertise. We have Egyptologists in the community, so they would probably know how to properly answer you, if they chose to do so.

In my humble view, which is just that, I find it inaccurate to make such assumptions. First because Egyptology, as a science, lacks much information and proof. Most of their theories are just that, educated guesses and assumptions. The Sphynx, as the Pyramids, are a good example on that. Egyptology has assumed their dating based on correlation, while Geology came around and proved them scientifically wrong. So really I wouldn't trust their dating for religious cults and practices, as secretive as some can be, and especially when they fail to even accurately date the larger and most well documented monuments. I know several members would disagree with me, but to me Egyptology is still just a baby science and, in many cases, even pseudoscience. Adding to this view, I also believe that even if there are no obvious older references (which I personally doubt it, but like I said, I am no expert nor I pretend to be) it doesn't mean that the religion and practice didn't exist. Asetianism was considered highly secretive during many times throughout history, and especially if we go back to a time when there was no recognizable forms of writing, it gets even harder to be sure. So no, in my opinion, your conclusions are incorrect. Others around may disagree with me, and I presume you were probably seeking more enlightening and educated explanations than the one I am able to provide.

On another subject, you mentioned the wikipedia article that was deleted along with several youtube videos from different accounts. This has also been target of discussion around here and other circles, but all we will be able to provide you is our opinion, not facts, as we don't know the reasons behind why the Aset Ka took those stances. Could be an attempt to prevent the Asetian tradition to become too popular, or could be something else. It is important to state, in case you're not aware of it, that we are not members of the Order. Most are Asetianists, which means they study Asetianism. Just that. Not all around here are vampires, actually a big portion isn't. So take all of our words concerning the Order of Aset Ka and the Asetians with a grain of salt, as most is theory and opinion, unless stated otherwise. And since contacting the Asetians is not a simple task, I would guess our opinion is the best you can get at this point...
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Re: Good afternoon

Post by Kalb on 10.05.11 13:46

Greetings,

I enjoyed reading what Jonathan said.
Anyway, you're wrong on some things in relation to Asetianism, Hawkmoor.
First, Asetian Bible was not published on July 31, 2007. Was July 7, 2007. A perfect day that represents the Asetian Energy. 7+7+7 = 21 = 3. The three Lineages. A cycle that has no end.

It's traditions are based on Left Hand Path, Black Magic and Dark Occultism, mixing Luciferian and Setian philosophies with Egyptian Magick, practicing mystical Vampirism and studying chaos magick and chaotic energies, as well as different forms of High Magick, energy work and rituals”
Hawkmoor

Well, I do not agree with You. The tradition is more deep and complex than your words. Asetianism is about Duality. Yin Yang. Two energy and concepts always present. You Spoke in "Left Hand Path, Black Magic and Dark Occultism, mixing and Luciferian Setian philosophies with Egyptian Magick, Vampirism practicing and studying mystical magick chaos and chaotic energies" This is your image about Asetianism? Asetians are complete beings. Accepting both sides, living in both sides. They have their own philosophy of life and their own knowledge and wisdom. I don’t see any sense in what you say about the Asetians. Djehuty is not manifested by “eternal transformation”. Djehuty is a term of Kemetic God Thoth, define different temporal intervals in spiritual history. We are currently in 4th Djehuty – The Djehuty of the Serpent. Don’t forget that time for Asetians is nothing. They are Immortal. Khepri is one of the Sacred Pillars of Asetian philosophy, means Eternal Transformation.

I have quit decipher dates, i only valid dates given by Asetians. Furthermore, let's be honest. Your database is very incomplete and with many errors, Hawkmoor.

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Re: Good afternoon

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