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Re: Good afternoon

Post by Syrianeh on 10.05.11 16:00

Stalker has made very good points. But I will add a bit:

Hawkmoor, no matter how many conjectures you come up with regarding proof or not of the Asetian empire and whether it was there or not, they will never prove either its existence or nonexistence. The history of the Aset Ka goes back seven or eight thousand years. Many Egyptian temples and monuments have stood and fallen since then, and those that have withstood the test of time often stand upon sacred ground where an even more ancient structure once stood, such as is the case of the Temples of Philae - before it was rebuilt on a nearby island - and Horus.

There is no scientific proof of the AK. But there are certainly breathtaking signs and tales that are told only to the observant and ready eye.

Furthermore, they are not the origin of vampires. There are other types of Vampires and Otherkin from other sources.

I, of course, lack the authority to speak in the name of the Asetians, and even as an Asetianist I consider that I have a long way to go. But this I can tell you in all certainty: the Aset Ka has remained silent for centuries, and they have no interest in mixing with society. This is for multiple reasons, not the least of which is that Vampirism, by definition, is not a social trait. You advocate for the integration and recognition of Vampires in the world's human society. This will never happen until the whole world takes a massive leap forward in its values, balance and comprehension of the Universe.

And when I say Vampires I mean real Vampires, not the confused individuals that populate the Internet fighting one another for attention.

Lastly, let me just remind you that the only official information you can find on the AK is on their website and on their published books. But even though that is only the tip of the iceberg, it is much more than enough to open your eyes.

You are free to believe as you wish and to be as you wish. But perhaps you will take this opportunity to look at things from different perspective.
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Good morning dear lady

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 18:52

N.Augusta wrote:That was just an FYI for the folks here. I'm sure you understand, Hawkmoor, that we keep each other very well informed here.

So, it is curious, Hawkmoor, you have much more critical comments around the OVC than you did on one thread here that was posted back in January regrading an article you wrote. We don't talk about your articles here (only one) and you've written so many others since then, which as you know, your articles are addressed and commented on frequently on the VCN FB page. Since you write opinion articles, surely you know they will receive criticism. Surely you are not going around every forum on the Web that has criticized an article you've written. Are you? Just curious.

It is, as you surely know being a writer yourself ma'am, almost inevitable that if you write something for public consumption there will be those who disagree with you. That is a foregone conclusion and the risk that we take every time we sit at our keyboard. That, however, does not; and will never, stop me writing about things I wish to write about.

As to your question, I am here to find knowledge that I do not yet possess.
Be well.
With compliments,
Hawkmoor

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Well met Jonathon

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 19:01

Jonathan wrote:I am not the best person to answer your question on dates, as it is not my field of expertise. We have Egyptologists in the community, so they would probably know how to properly answer you, if they chose to do so.

In my humble view, which is just that, I find it inaccurate to make such assumptions. First because Egyptology, as a science, lacks much information and proof. Most of their theories are just that, educated guesses and assumptions. The Sphynx, as the Pyramids, are a good example on that.


Thank you for your response Jonathon,
I accept your information gratefully and I will concede your points about Egyptology, as you quite rightly testify, the Sphynx is a classic example.

Assumptions, theories, hypotheses and conclusions can only be drawn by looking at available facts and while I would NEVER be so brash as to exclaim "I have read it all", I have applied a reasonable method of cross-referencing multiple sources to arrive at what I believe to be plausible explanations. From those plausible explanations I have drawn my own "plausible" conclusions without blindly following the teachings or rhetoric of one "school of thought" or the other.

At present I have only enough "facts", derived from my readings, to conclude that 2613BC is the most likely point for the beginning of Asetian worship and culture.

I would welcome any other information to apply against my conclusion.
Once again, my thanks Sir.
With compliments and respectfully,
Hawkmoor


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Well met Stalker

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 19:17

Stalker wrote:First, Asetian Bible was not published on July 31, 2007. Was July 7, 2007.

I have quit decipher dates, i only valid dates given by Asetians. Furthermore, let's be honest. Your database is very incomplete and with many errors, Hawkmoor.

Thank you for your response,
firstly allow me to apologise for the date of publication error. I found the book information at an online retailer that was notAmazon. I shall make sure we correct that in our records.

I would appreciate it if you would relay to me where my errors have occurred in my database, then I will be able to correct those as well. If you would be kind enough to supply specific details I will, immediately, rectify the problem you speak of.
With compliments, and respectfully,
Hawkmoor

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Well met Lady Syrianeh

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 19:28

Syrianeh wrote:Stalker has made very good points. But I will add a bit:

Hawkmoor, no matter how many conjectures you come up with regarding proof or not of the Asetian empire and whether it was there or not, they will never prove either its existence or nonexistence.

Furthermore, they are not the origin of vampires. There are other types of Vampires and Otherkin from other sources.

You advocate for the integration and recognition of Vampires in the world's human society. This will never happen until the whole world takes a massive leap forward in its values, balance and comprehension of the Universe.

And when I say Vampires I mean real Vampires, not the confused individuals that populate the Internet fighting one another for attention.

Lastly, let me just remind you that the only official information you can find on the AK is on their website and on their published books. But even though that is only the tip of the iceberg, it is much more than enough to open your eyes.

You are free to believe as you wish and to be as you wish. But perhaps you will take this opportunity to look at things from different perspective.

Thank you for your most considered and thoughtful response.
As it is with many things in this world and universe, we may never be able to prove, or disprove their existence or efficacy ~ that is sad but it should never stop us from looking and learning. When the day comes that I no longer feel the need to search for knowledge I shall take bottle of Irish single malt whiskey and a fine cigar, go to my nearest funeral home and lie down in a box to await death. Laughing

I am always open, in light of the attainment of knowledge, to "look" with eyes wide and different perspectives, if that were not the case I wouldn't be here... I think you would agree with that, yes?

The things that I believe, I believe because I have learned. Because of knowledge I possess and because of different sources I have gained such knowledge from. As I say, I don't restrict myself to just one source of information usually but as you can see from Stalkers message I sometimes grow lax in the minutiae. Smile

You are partially correct when you say I advocate for integration of vampyres with the world of the mundane... that would be the ideal but you will surely recognise from my Wordpress article "The vampire community in the news", that I firmly believe that we will never be able to achieve acceptance if we do not radically change our image. It probably won't happen in my lifetime, sadly.

Again, my thanks dear lady.
With compliments and respectfully,
Hawkmoor

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Condensing the questions

Post by Hawkmoor on 10.05.11 20:01

Good morning honoured members.
If I may, I would like to condense the 3 key questions that brought me here:

1) If these dates are genuine this would lead to the conclusion that the Asetian culture is not older than 2613BC.

2) The earliest referents I can find with regard to vampyrism, or vampyric entities are dated around 4200BC then the first "recorded" vampyres must have originated with the Mesopotamian myths. How do we determine the existence of vampyres earlier than 4200BC?

3) The earliest referents I can find with regard to vampyrism, or vampyric entities are dated around 4200BC then the first "recorded" vampyres must have originated with the Mesopotamian myths. How do we determine the existence of vampyres earlier than 4200BC.

I do have one more question to add however, Lady Syrianeh wrote:
Quote: "They are not the origin of vampires. There are other vampires and other types of kin from other sources."

According to my reading, in the opening paragraph of address at The Kemetic Order of Aset Ka website it states:

"The Asetians are primordial vampires, the first-born of the ancient immortal kin. They trace their roots back to Ancient Egypt, a time of mysteries and magick, where they were given Life out of the essence of Aset, in an act of creation known as the Dark Kiss - the Asetian initiation."
( Reference )

The term "primordial" is defined as, and commonly held to mean:
Primordial means:
1. Constituting a beginning; giving origin to something derived or developed; original; elementary: primordial forms of life.
2. Embryology . First formed.
3. Pertaining to or existing at or from the very beginning: primordial matter.
.
Origin:
1350–1400; Middle English < Late Latin prīmōrdiālis of the beginning. See primordium, -al

—Related forms
pri•mor•di•al•i•ty pri•mor•di•al•ly, adverb

—Can be confused: primal, primeval, primordial .

( Reference )

I am confused by the use of the word "primordial" if, as you say, they are not the origin of vampyres ~ perhaps you, or one of the other honoured members, might enlighten me?

At your convenience, of course.
With compliments and respectfully,
Hawkmoor

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Re: Good afternoon

Post by N.Augusta on 10.05.11 20:35

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Asetian-Bible/Luis-Marques/e/9789899569409/?itm=1&USRI=the+asetian+bible

I am sure having a copy of the Asetian Bible will be the most beneficial source for your records. Just wanted to give you a link. Have you any interest in reading it?
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Re: Good afternoon

Post by Kalb on 11.05.11 2:08

For what I know, one of the times in which something of Aset Ka was published in 1999. Anyway, you answered a small percentage of what I wrote and ignored the rest. I expected more from you. Of course that I've concluded that you do not understand anything about Asetianism and all that sympathy is a mask. You're just holding posture.
The first Djehuty is highly connected with Aset, was the age of the Gods or if you prefer call, Sep Tepy – The Egytian words for first time. Was around 5.000 BC. Was a powerful Djehuty, where Asetians trace back Their roots and Aset gave birth to the Primordials. This information is sufficient for most of us. Age is only a number, does not symbolize any kind of connection with spiritual things. I believe that things in relation to Asetianism are done in silence first. For example, The Djehuty of the Serpent began around 2000. Only in 2007, that Aset Ka published and "proved" to the world again, yes, "proved" because for most of us never hid. Therefore, dates are irrelevant. The Asetians along the historian and the beginning of time have done many things, many of them are hidden from the human eye. Many times a choice of AK. Often Asetians let the world assume many things like the case of dates, otherwise put on its own website the "real” dates that you want to know.
About your database, is immaturity taking information from Asetians on unofficial website’s. In your above post, you spoke as a man that know truth, after I correct you, you answered in a way so humble. A database is run by hackers who are part of the same Order / coven. Most of the knowledge inserted is obtained by espionage and sources, not by what others say and unofficial sites. You came here to give your point of view, talk about what you think is the right, but you have forgotten the way we see Life. Thing that you don’t understand, so you'll continue to talk about dates and ignore our belief and send invitations to your group. I have bad news for you. In Asetianism, there is no invitations to belong to the Order. Are we, Asetianists we follow with our whole consciousness, dedication and love the Asetians, and when Aset Ka see one of us is worthy to enter the cycle, the words will be "It was a wonderful journey you've done, Come! Join! We have many things to talk, many mysteries to show…"
This is very different from what we see out there with Admin’s of groups, use the words "Do you want to come? Join?" ; "I make you an invitation. ".

As you did here too ...
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Re: Good afternoon

Post by Syrianeh on 11.05.11 2:23

According to my reading, in the opening paragraph of address at The Kemetic Order of Aset Ka website it states:

"The Asetians are primordial vampires, the first-born of the ancient immortal kin. They trace their roots back to Ancient Egypt, a time of mysteries and magick, where they were given Life out of the essence of Aset, in an act of creation known as the Dark Kiss - the Asetian initiation."
( Reference )

The term "primordial" is defined as, and commonly held to mean:
Primordial means:
1. Constituting a beginning; giving origin to something derived or developed; original; elementary: primordial forms of life.
2. Embryology . First formed.
3. Pertaining to or existing at or from the very beginning: primordial matter.
.
Origin:
1350–1400; Middle English < Late Latin prīmōrdiālis of the beginning. See primordium, -al

—Related forms
pri•mor•di•al•i•ty pri•mor•di•al•ly, adverb

—Can be confused: primal, primeval, primordial .

( Reference )

I am confused by the use of the word "primordial" if, as you say, they are not the origin of vampyres ~ perhaps you, or one of the other honoured members, might enlighten me?

At your convenience, of course.
With compliments and respectfully,
Hawkmoor[/quote]

The quote from the AK says that the Asetians are "primordial vampires". That means they are original as Aset's bloodline and Children, and most probably more ancient than most. It does not exclude other sources and bloodlines of Vampirism, such as Sethians and Mesopotamians.

And this, for now, is all I have to say on this subject and in this thread. Be well.
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Re: Good afternoon

Post by Syrianeh on 11.05.11 2:27

Please excuse me, the above post was not properly structured. It included a large quote and then my comments, like below:

Hawkmoor wrote:According to my reading, in the opening paragraph of address at The Kemetic Order of Aset Ka website it states:

"The Asetians are primordial vampires, the first-born of the ancient immortal kin. They trace their roots back to Ancient Egypt, a time of mysteries and magick, where they were given Life out of the essence of Aset, in an act of creation known as the Dark Kiss - the Asetian initiation."
( Reference )

The term "primordial" is defined as, and commonly held to mean:
Primordial means:
1. Constituting a beginning; giving origin to something derived or developed; original; elementary: primordial forms of life.
2. Embryology . First formed.
3. Pertaining to or existing at or from the very beginning: primordial matter.
.
Origin:
1350–1400; Middle English < Late Latin prīmōrdiālis of the beginning. See primordium, -al

—Related forms
pri•mor•di•al•i•ty pri•mor•di•al•ly, adverb

—Can be confused: primal, primeval, primordial .

( Reference )

I am confused by the use of the word "primordial" if, as you say, they are not the origin of vampyres ~ perhaps you, or one of the other honoured members, might enlighten me?

At your convenience, of course.
With compliments and respectfully,
Hawkmoor

The quote from the AK says that the Asetians are "primordial vampires". That means they are original as Aset's bloodline and Children, and most probably more ancient than most. It does not exclude other sources and bloodlines of Vampirism, such as Sethians and Mesopotamians.

And this, for now, is all I have to say on this subject and in this thread. Be well.
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I fear I have offended

Post by Hawkmoor on 11.05.11 3:12

Good evening.
I fear that by coming here and, as suggested, asking my questions, I have offended some people. That was absolutely not my intent and I apologise if anyone feels offended.

Thank you for your replies Lady Syrianeh and Stalker.

My dear N.Augusta, I will put the book on my list to read. Thank you for the suggestion.

Perhaps we should move on from matters of historical significance and seek other matters to discuss, yes?

I have read the definition of "vampire" at the link proposed by the honourable member Victor in the thread "What is a vampire?", I also read the differing opinions on that thread. I was surprised to see the conjecture that vampyres, if they did not feed, would die.

I am speaking from the point of view of a modern, living, sentient vampyre who has been this way for some 33 years - in that time I have not died from lack of feeding, even when disengaging for extended periods of time. May I enquire, under what circumstances would a vampyre die from lack of feeding?

I would also like to seek opinions on the definition of the term, "a vampyre house" ~ if any here would care to honour me with their perceptions.

In an earlier post Lady Syrianeh wrote:
"And when I say Vampires I mean real Vampires, not the confused individuals that populate the Internet fighting one another for attention."

Putting aside the absolute definition, if we may, of the vampire as presented in the link page I mentioned earlier, what is it, specifically, that makes any of the honourable vampyre members here truly different from any other who claims the name vampyre?

With compliments and respectfully,
Hawkmoor


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Re: Good afternoon

Post by Kate on 11.05.11 4:51

Hawkmoor, I am certain that no honorable members would claim to be something they are not; however, the perception of others can lead to the wrong assumption. The human psyche is fashioned in a way that makes it more disposed to delusion than reality. An enlightened being would only reveal itself to those of its own breed, and would have no need to do so to others.


Things are not always what they seem; the first appearance deceives many; the intelligence of a few perceives what has been carefully hidden
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A farewell message

Post by Hawkmoor on 11.05.11 5:53

Thank you for your message Kate. That, I would suspect, sums up the feelings around here towards my questions and my very being here. Thus, if there are no answers to my questions I have no choice but to move on to other things.

When I came here, as it was suggested I should in the thread “Hawkmoor’s request”, I honestly did not know what I would find. I came with hope, with honesty and to learn something. I was encouraged by reading the line in your intro paragraph at the home page, “We are an open-minded community”.

Likewise, I was similarly encouraged by the words of the honourable members who first greeted me when I did arrive, such as;

“Most members of this Forum are, as Talibah said, renown and respected experts who value above anything else.”
“Everyone is entitled to their own views and set of beliefs”
And,
“You will find all sorts of answers around here”

I was encouraged when I was invited to initiate debate by asking the questions I had in my mind after reviewing something of the history of The Order ~
Quote: “It might be better to ask some of those questions I suspect you have first.”

Now, here we are a total of 498 views which probably doubles the highest rate of views on a single thread anywhere else in the online communities, and out of those 17 replies which, respectfully, have given me no answers.

That is a pretty poor batting average in anyone’s language.

There can be no point in asking questions if there are no answers, or, if the answers are to be denied based on preconceived notions of a person. I made an effort to introduce myself as thoroughly as possible so that the members here would have a feel for the person who hoped that there were indeed “debate and discussion on equal levels”.

I came here, as I indicated to the Lady Divine, to gain knowledge which I did not yet possess, I have actually achieved that goal ~ I have knowledge of the Vampirism forum which I did not possess before. I have no further knowledge of the Kemetic Order of Aset Ka but, regretfully, I fear that will not be found here, therefore, I will look elsewhere.

As agreed, and as per my promise I will write NO articles on my experience here but I will, as I said upon arrival, take my knowledge back to my own web-group members for discussion.

There are, I respectfully suggest, certain replies in this thread that the Administration would be well served in reviewing in light of the “Open minded” and “Respectful interactions” policies of the Vampirism Forum ~ however, I do not expect that will come to pass.

As I leave I would ask, most respectfully, that the Vampirism Forum, and its members observe the tenets of national and international copyright law and refrain from taking any material from my writings in excess of what may be construed as being covered by the “Fair use” clauses in relevant legislation. I shall do you the same courtesy.

For whatever reason we could not achieve an open-minded sharing of thoughts and beliefs… that is sad but not unexpected.

I thank you for your time and hospitality.
With compliments,
Hawkmoor.

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Re: Good afternoon

Post by N.Augusta on 11.05.11 6:11

Farewell and take care.
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Re: Good afternoon

Post by Kate on 11.05.11 6:59

Hawkmoor

itseni halu viisaus ajaksi te ja sinun ehjä hankkia asunto

Things are not always what they seem; the first appearance deceives many; the intelligence of a few perceives what has been carefully hidden
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Re: Good afternoon

Post by Victor on 11.05.11 8:24

Someone must be very naïve if they expect to find in an open public forum (and one of the largest worldwide in terms of vampirism) the answers to the hidden history and mysteries of an occult Order with the cultural, historical and spiritual significance of the Aset Ka.

Who shall seek with honor and no personal gain shall find, otherwise all will forever be smoke and mirrors.

Crying about how hard it can be to find and interpret true Asetian wisdom will do nothing but perpetuate ignorance. No one should blame the Self when it lacks the ability to find answers on his own and holds expectations to find them in a few minutes on a public board. To me, it simply demonstrates lack of understanding on the nature of the occult and spiritual mysteries, in particularly initiatory traditions, not just Asetianism.

This is all I find worth to say on the contents of this thread.

I leave you with a short but highly meaningful quote from Luis Marques of the Order of Aset Ka:

The Order of Aset Ka is an elitist secretive society. The essence and knowledge behind the Aset Ka is not found in buildings, objects or common books. Its mysteries are only unveiled to the worthy and its doors only open for the ones who are loyal and true. For everyone else... the Order will never exist.
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Re: Good afternoon

Post by Kalb on 25.05.11 13:40

Forgive me Victor. This topic was worthy ended by your words. But i need to say this.

Hawkmoor, I do not wish you a warm welcome when you arrived. Forgive me.

Welcome here. Smile
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