Tolerance and acceptance

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Re: Tolerance and acceptance

Post by LamourBleu on 24.04.12 2:24

Just a(n attempted) quick thought. I do think any group can be more productive by focusing on the topic or work at hand, while cutting out the pointless gossip. I do think though the topics need to stay open.

I know the majority of discussions here are on the AB, but as the board notes in the disclaimer that it is not representative of the Aset Ka. Therefore I note when I joined there is a lot of comparative vampiric religious studies. I am still studying the Asetian bible, and I notice even members who have been here for quite some time are stating they are not sure of the validity of it, while others will easily state it is the end of the search. It seems reasonable to stay open and compare some books and practices with others even if that book or religion in question isn't completely correct in all aspects. In order to sort out reasonably what really works we need to be able to compare one way with the other openly. Especially since, as the author states, the public AB is purposefully incomplete.

Tolerance is extremely important, even now as I know one may say "if you don't believe in the Asetian Bible, you are not a vampire" as I have heard similar statements with many other occult; satanic, vampiric organizations, including Christianity. I know this may seem presumptuous or rude to assume one may say this, I just don't want any statements like that to detract from my original point(which was?).

My original point was that I would like to see open discussion and direct discussion that compares the many vampire methods and traditions, noting similarities, and what makes each unique. This will help us to not fall into social traps of needless life long oaths to something that could have just as easily been learned on a psionics website. Maybe it's not that easy, but by comparing we can begin to build the puzzle and get a clear picture.

Though that last comment is sarcastic I am still open to there being more, I am just soooooooooo!(10) very jaded Suspect and sick of having to pledge myself to this or that group, tradition or ideology of any kind.

Rightfully one may say "we already have the open comparison, ...." that is good, I am thankful for that. I just highly encourage it to continue in a manner that is left both open and tolerant for the sake of evolution.

You have all added valid points to this matter, thank you.
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Re: Tolerance and acceptance

Post by Jonathan on 24.04.12 7:42

LamourBleu wrote:...while others will easily state it is the end of the search.
LamourBleu wrote:Tolerance is extremely important, even now as I know one may say "if you don't believe in the Asetian Bible, you are not a vampire" as I have heard similar statements with many other occult; satanic, vampiric organizations, including Christianity.
You would not hear any of such statements from an Asetianist. First because no book can ever turn someone into a vampire, no matter how amazing that book may be. To actually believe that would go against what the Asetians teach. And second because the Asetians themselves are the ones encouraging their students (and the world, really) to learn all they can from other traditions and paths. Even the Asetian Bible mentions the importance of comparative religious studies. Someone that just read the book and thinks that is the end must be delusional. The Asetian Bible was meant as a start in the studies, working as an introduction to Asetianism, but the Asetian world and knowledge is far more complex than what it's explained in this book.
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Re: Tolerance and acceptance

Post by Maxx on 24.04.12 9:25

Lamourblue,

Your comment.....

" My original point was that I would like to see open discussion and direct discussion that compares the many vampire methods and traditions, noting similarities, and what makes each unique. This will help us to not fall into social traps of needless life long oaths to something that could have just as easily been learned on a psionics website. Maybe it's not that easy, but by comparing we can begin to build the puzzle and get a clear picture. "

.....would involve many who have actually been inside the different groups and can speak from their teachings first hand.....otherwise, we would only be guessing. Also, we presume that one here would also have a certain amount of discernment, themselves, to know what is best for each one as they travel their walk of investigation on this planet, and allow for their choices based on investigation and the learning curve that would apply to them individually......as the Asetian Bible states, " It is not for everyone".



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Re: Tolerance and acceptance

Post by Syrianeh on 24.04.12 16:24

Ok, here is my second attempt at posting. Smile

N.Augusta, thank you for bringing up this topic, and doing so with such passion and dedication. It has infused some energy back into this Forum and that is always welcome.

Now, just to comment on some points made:

When it comes to "Freedom" (i.e. freedom of choice, freedom of opinion, freedom of expression and freedom of belief) one can very well say that it's paramount to growth, like N.Augusta mentioned: "Asetianism is all about Freedom". But is it? wherein lies true freedom? Talibah made a good point, as well. True Freedom might be something sadly unattainable for most of us, as there are too many mind traps and pre-programmed codes of behaviour coded into our conscious being (this was also mentioned in another thread recently).

But a good way to approach real Freedom is through the exploration and knowledge of Self. That is the best way to break through the barriers, and it takes a lot of courage because it involves not only acknowledging what you are but also - and most importantly - what you aren't. To do this you will necessarily tread different paths and explore different schools of thought. But, as far as I know, it is never a question of "choosing". If you merely choose to be someone, somewhere and in some group, coven, house or religion you are not being true. It is not "choice" and it never will be. Simple choice is weak, insufficient, misleading and blind. What you need to find is the deeply rooted, soul-wrenching certainty that you've found your place, and you cannot choose to be there any more than you can choose not to.

This is not to say that I am one of those lucky, enlightened souls who's found true Freedom beyond choice. I'm still working on it, and will be for a long time. But I can say this much about my journey so far: I am choosing less and less and knowing more and more. And Asetianism has greatly helped me in that advancement.

So are we "all the same"? no, I don't think we are. There are enormous differences between individuals. Not based on cultural, racial or even really on religious factors, but on Wisdom. In my humble opinion, some deserve to be heard more than others. Some deserve to be credited more than others because they have reached a stage in their growth beyond what most have. Being humble enough to acknowledge that and setting aside egocentric ideals to learn from the source is the best thing one can do for themselves.

Bashing? I've been there. Poking fun at certain groups and individuals? been there. Guilty. But I am not one of those enlightened beings I speak of, who know quite well that silent disregard is the best criticism there is. So I put this example to you: do the TOV bash, critizice and backbite? yes. Do the vampire community? well, we all know about the flaming drama orgies they indulge in. Do the Asetians openly criticize or look down on anyone? no.

Giving the same value to every big and little group out there is unrealistic, and a poor exercise of judgement. Some younger, or less experienced individuals might be blinded out by all the glam, the mystery and the what have you, and decide that they are "exercising their freedom of choice" by being this and that. But as I mentioned above, your path never really begins until you stop choosing.

So all this said I would conclude that what's most important is to be true to yourself, and not dabble here and there like many do - showing an utter lack of personality and a weak link with the true core of Self. You might make huge mistakes on the way, and you might have to turn around and acknowledge to yourself that you were wrong. But your responsibility lies truly to yourself and yourself only.

And once you do find that which your soul and spirit resonate with, be loyal. As loyal as you are to your own life. It's not as hard as it sounds. If you're truly loyal to your path, it's probably because you've always been. So in a way it's just like coming home.



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Re: Tolerance and acceptance

Post by Syrianeh on 24.04.12 16:35

I also wanted to mention that everyone else has made impressive contributions - Maxx, Witchmark, Jonathan, DCxMagus, Lamourbleu, Stalker... I am impressed at the level of maturity and debate that usually reigns in this Forum.
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Re: Tolerance and acceptance

Post by Syrianeh on 24.04.12 17:22

A correction:

When I said:

"Asetianism is all about Freedom". But is it?

I meant to say

"Asetianism is all about Freedom". But by what definition of "Freedom" is it?
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Re: Tolerance and acceptance

Post by Kalb on 24.04.12 17:26

Wonderful reading! Clap

I confess that I was surprised by your dedication and for having lost again extra time to share your inspiring view. Thank you. I loved it.
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Re: Tolerance and acceptance

Post by Jonathan on 24.04.12 20:44

Syrianeh wrote:
But a good way to approach real Freedom is through the exploration and knowledge of Self. That is the best way to break through the barriers, and it takes a lot of courage because it involves not only acknowledging what you are but also - and most importantly - what you aren't. To do this you will necessarily tread different paths and explore different schools of thought. But, as far as I know, it is never a question of "choosing". If you merely choose to be someone, somewhere and in some group, coven, house or religion you are not being true. It is not "choice" and it never will be. Simple choice is weak, insufficient, misleading and blind. What you need to find is the deeply rooted, soul-wrenching certainty that you've found your place, and you cannot choose to be there any more than you can choose not to.

This is not to say that I am one of those lucky, enlightened souls who's found true Freedom beyond choice. I'm still working on it, and will be for a long time. But I can say this much about my journey so far: I am choosing less and less and knowing more and more. And Asetianism has greatly helped me in that advancement.

So are we "all the same"? no, I don't think we are. There are enormous differences between individuals. Not based on cultural, racial or even really on religious factors, but on Wisdom. In my humble opinion, some deserve to be heard more than others. Some deserve to be credited more than others because they have reached a stage in their growth beyond what most have. Being humble enough to acknowledge that and setting aside egocentric ideals to learn from the source is the best thing one can do for themselves.

Bashing? I've been there. Poking fun at certain groups and individuals? been there. Guilty. But I am not one of those enlightened beings I speak of, who know quite well that silent disregard is the best criticism there is. So I put this example to you: do the TOV bash, critizice and backbite? yes. Do the vampire community? well, we all know about the flaming drama orgies they indulge in. Do the Asetians openly criticize or look down on anyone? no.

Giving the same value to every big and little group out there is unrealistic, and a poor exercise of judgement. Some younger, or less experienced individuals might be blinded out by all the glam, the mystery and the what have you, and decide that they are "exercising their freedom of choice" by being this and that. But as I mentioned above, your path never really begins until you stop choosing.

So all this said I would conclude that what's most important is to be true to yourself, and not dabble here and there like many do - showing an utter lack of personality and a weak link with the true core of Self. You might make huge mistakes on the way, and you might have to turn around and acknowledge to yourself that you were wrong. But your responsibility lies truly to yourself and yourself only.

And once you do find that which your soul and spirit resonate with, be loyal. As loyal as you are to your own life. It's not as hard as it sounds. If you're truly loyal to your path, it's probably because you've always been. So in a way it's just like coming home.
Brilliant post Syrianeh. One of the best in a long time.
Very inspiring. Thank you.
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Re: Tolerance and acceptance

Post by Syrianeh on 25.04.12 2:21

Stalker and Jonathan, thanks for the kind words.
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Re: Tolerance and acceptance

Post by Victor on 26.04.12 11:41

Syrianeh wrote:Bashing? I've been there. Poking fun at certain groups and individuals? been there. Guilty. But I am not one of those enlightened beings I speak of, who know quite well that silent disregard is the best criticism there is. So I put this example to you: do the TOV bash, critizice and backbite? yes. Do the vampire community? well, we all know about the flaming drama orgies they indulge in. Do the Asetians openly criticize or look down on anyone? no.
This says a lot. It also proves a lot.

Jonathan wrote:
LamourBleu wrote:...while others will easily state it is the end of the search.
LamourBleu wrote:Tolerance is extremely important, even now as I know one may say "if you don't believe in the Asetian Bible, you are not a vampire" as I have heard similar statements with many other occult; satanic, vampiric organizations, including Christianity.
You would not hear any of such statements from an Asetianist. First because no book can ever turn someone into a vampire, no matter how amazing that book may be. To actually believe that would go against what the Asetians teach. And second because the Asetians themselves are the ones encouraging their students (and the world, really) to learn all they can from other traditions and paths. Even the Asetian Bible mentions the importance of comparative religious studies. Someone that just read the book and thinks that is the end must be delusional. The Asetian Bible was meant as a start in the studies, working as an introduction to Asetianism, but the Asetian world and knowledge is far more complex than what it's explained in this book.
See the Asetian Bible as a violet candle that will ignite your flame...

It will change you, teach you and guide you, but only if you look further and never stop learning.

Those that stagnate and stop learning are an insult to what the Asetians represent and they are many, but mainly they insult Self. Stagnation is a common recipe for failure and it's behind many that leave this path. Only few can see what Asetianism truly is and the inner power it unfolds, but you can only give it an honest try when you embrace it with an open mind and leave all prejudice behind. This is not elitism but a simple fact of life that every occultist must learn: what is worth is not simple and easy, it must be conquered with hard work.
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Re: Tolerance and acceptance

Post by Kalb on 26.04.12 13:32

You're good, Victor.

The reason for I use this avatar: Five of Cups - Disappointment - Minor Arcana Thoth Crowley Tarot was because in a moment of meditation around the sea and nature a special and magic moment happens front on me. It's about what you said... I would not say better, just add one thing: Whoever won the Asetianism felt the butterfly effect itself.
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Re: Tolerance and acceptance

Post by N.Augusta on 27.04.12 7:04

Stalker wrote:Thank you for your reply N.Augusta.

I will reveal you a secret, let me talk a little about myself, please. I believe in Love, in Loyalty and in Honor as I mentioned many times. My belief is not based on "If's" or the Asetianism was a choice I made to follow.. Asetianism is part of me, part of my thoughts and feelings. Asetianism makes me complete. The cycle of life is very simple, you live, you die, you return to incarnate and you turns to be educated in the tradition and philosophy of your new parents. But, there's one thing you cannot forget: Your past. You have a tendency to pick your past, your choices will be based on what you lived in your past life, is not as linear as well, but generally works well. I can give you an example of a singer or even a writer, in past lives were the professions of them and in this life will have a strong tendency to be singers or writers ... This passion come from the soul not the physical pleasure.

The Bushido was an Honor code of the Samurais, a code of conduct and living style and the Samurai was a very proud person, so that his name be dishonored he would perform seppuku, because in their code of ethics it's better to die with honor than live without it. As Eriotto Rongu said one day..: “Any man can be prepared to kill, a samurai is prepared to die”.
So you're telling me it is not possible to live every moment of our lives with Honor? The Samurai is just one example. The era of the samurai ended in Japan, but they exist and are real ... Only live differently.
What about the Asetian Family? Together for more than 8,000 years as Family, life after life, Honoring Family Bond, fighting for their Union and fighting together for the same purpose. Not live an Honorable life? All the time means nothing?

One thing is to be off and not realize how to listen our inner voice and Soul ... another thing is to have power of choice, freedom and it still does not honor their commitment. I did not choose to be a Christian, was my family who baptized me, forced me to take communion and confirmation. After I listened my inner voice and have obtained the freedom, I realized where I really belonged accepting the option and beliefs of others and walk my path without doubts.
Life is a game, or a jungle. We must know how to play and live. Fortunately I was born in a place where I can express myself more and get faster results than if I had to live in Sudan or anywhere else. In this life they are having problems of freedom .. The next could be me or you. Therefore, it is very important to survive in the jungle .... because you never know what may come in the future to the jungle. Caution is always the best option.

Jonathan, was very clear in what he said in his post.

Jonathan wrote:lack of personality or like an occultist would say, a lack of defined Self. Most people have no identity, being only part of the herd, so they follow what others say and do, finding it great at the time, but when others change they go along with them.
Clap


Thanks for responding, Stalker and sharing. I will be honest, I don't know quite how to respond to your post. Smile We are just going to have to agree to disagree when it comes to one being able to be honorable at every moment of ones life, which may be great in theory, though, such is not practical and/or realistic. You used "Asetians" and "Samurais" as examples of being honorable and implied that you believe that they are/were honorable at every moment and that too, I disagree. At best, all I can do is explain why I disagree. I certainly do not think anyone is perfect, and that includes myself, the general population, and Asetians as well. I do not think of them, or anyone, as being perfect beings. And since honor is expressed, through our words, choices and actions, it would be impossible for anyone to always be honorable. However, with that said, I understand that we all have different views on what "honor" is and thus depending upon ones perception of what is and is not honorable, and how loosely ones standards of honor may be, well, that complicates things. Smile For example, maybe you are more loose/accepting and willing to consider something that the Asetians do as honorable, and yet will hold everyone else, including the general population, at a higher standard? I don't know! Though, I think it is fair to assume that what you find honorable and as living honorably may be very different than my perception, which would make sense as we all think differently because we are each unique, right? And I don't think that I can conclude that everything that two Asetians perceive as honorable, will be exactly the same for they are all their own unique individuals as well, with different backgrounds, individual level of evolution, etc.... Regardless of them being Asetians, they still have more in their lives than just "Aset Ka" which not all are a part of. I see their duties and involvement with their Asetian family to be a part of their lives, but that there are also other parts as they live their own individual lives and have their own individual struggles, and also have jobs/families/friends, etc. that will have nothing to do with the Asetians. Almost like they live "double lives" which I do not like using that analogy for all parts of ones life equals the whole, but the analogy was used for simplicity purposes.

Also, I highly doubt that those who were attacked by the Samurais viewed them as honorable and rather saw them as killers who invaded their villages and killed their family members, for example. Wink Not everyone will hold the Samurais in the high regard in which you do. There are two sides to every battle.

The thing is, we all live by our own code of honor which as we change and grow, is also subject to change, though, some apparently have none whatsoever. Some individuals will have a more detailed/strict code of honor, and others not. But, what I do know, is that my own code of honor applies only to me and I cannot hold others to the same accountability to that as what I hold myself to, or else I lead myself down a continuous cycle of disappointment which would be very negative, and if I focus solely on others and what I perceive them doing as wrong, then I fail myself for my focus needs only be on Self and looking in my own mirror, which, I don't always do, of course. I make mistakes! I am far from perfect, though, I've no desire to be perfect. Wink

We must hold ourselves accountable for all choices and all that we do, or so I believe, so that we may learn, grow and change. We would have to be without faults, if we were to be honorable every moment of our lives or else we would have nothing to learn. No, it simply is impossible to live every moment/minute with honor. Such is a great thing to strive for nonetheless, yet we cannot be too hard on Self or others for we all make mistakes. So really, if we were to be honorable at every moment of our lives, then we would have to be Jesus reincarnated, or rather, we would be the second coming of Christ-- I guess! Smile

If we look at the Asetians as if they are always honorable, then we really do set ourselves up for disappointment. If an Asetian is without faults, then he/she has nothing left to learn and accomplish with Self work, and they are also here to live and learn like the rest of us, I believe. Wink
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