Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

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AlexaAnghel
Tiet
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Post by Void 22.09.20 16:58

James wrote:You get impressed by little, if just knowing total book pages is enough to impress you.

You’re still missing the point. Reading and practicing The Violet Throne still doesn’t make anyone an Asetian.

Oh and book prices don’t mean much to me. You find The Violet Throne price high? I have grimoires that cost me several hundred.
That's true, I do get impressed fairly easy at times. What other grimoires you have at that price range?
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Post by Maxx 22.09.20 16:59

it all appears very similiar but they make the separation point in using the "ist" addition on the end of asetianist or asetian. One is the family and the other is the kissing cousin.
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Post by Maxx 22.09.20 17:01

Oh great, I am getting very excited now. I, too, have many phone books I have used as grimoires.
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Post by Sybil Mason 22.09.20 17:13

Maxx has been suspended from all activity for the period of fifteen (15) days. That will hopefully give him the time to calm down and find some balance. He has been previously warned about disrupting discussions, spreading rumors and targeting users.

On the next offense the ban will be permanent.

_________________
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Post by James 22.09.20 18:16

Void wrote:
James wrote:You get impressed by little, if just knowing total book pages is enough to impress you.

You’re still missing the point. Reading and practicing The Violet Throne still doesn’t make anyone an Asetian.

Oh and book prices don’t mean much to me. You find The Violet Throne price high? I have grimoires that cost me several hundred.
That's true, I do get impressed fairly easy at times. What other grimoires you have at that price range?

The Book of Sitra Achra - A Grimoire of the Dragons of the Other Side, Azerate Pact Edition, and Andrew D. Chumbley's The Azoëtia both come to mind in those price ranges, but there are more. Each volume costs more than the entire collection of six primal craft books.

Now lets follow what others have asked and keep this thread on the topic of Primal Craft.

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Post by Jonathan 22.09.20 18:32

James wrote:Void: I was indeed searching about Asetianism. Smile

But on that subject this forum actually shows up on top to me on Google for an assorted variance of queries on occult topics and VC personalities.

Give it a few days and it will be on the top results when searching for primal craft as well.

It already is among the very top results when searching for “primal craft fake”, “primal craft cult” and “primal craft vampirism”. This is so retarded...

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Post by James 22.09.20 18:43

Oopsie. Sorry about that. What a Face

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Post by Jonathan 22.09.20 18:51

Don't worry. We’re used to it.  Wink

Take care.
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Post by Selene Skotia 24.09.20 10:57

As there are many people reading this long thread and it seems bound to become an online reference to those researching Primal Craft, I wanted to share in here the same advice that I have previously given on the private Discord server, before all this situation came up.

This is a personal advice and I'm not a devotee of Primal Craft, but I am of Hekate, so take it in whatever way you find relevant, but I would recommend when it comes to blood magick not to use Mark's sigils but instead to create your own. If you have an empathic link, spiritual connection or experience with theurgical praxis, you can channel your own sigil. It will not only be more effective and empowering but also less of a risk. I won't argue if intentional or not, but with books becoming so accessible and public like those of Primal Craft it's inevitable for an egregore to be associated with it, even from all the dabblers playing with the sigils without necessary precautions. Some modern sigils included within the books have indeed been traced to be gateways into an egregore by experienced metaphysical practitioners. So if you do wish to use the books regardless and explore the rites, the evocations should be safe but do stay away from the modern “channeled” sigils included. Historical ones presented in the books should create no issue.
Remember the words by Master Marques, you can learn something from nearly every branch of knowledge and esoteric tradition, even if false or lesser paths leading to more limited truths. Falls are opportunities to rise.
If you notice, the Aset Ka hasn't disclosed secret keys on theurgy within published literature categorized under public access, and I believe for a very good reason. Avoid public sigils when possible, they carry all sorts of unneeded attachments.

On the subject of Traditional Hekatean Witchcraft, always remember that Hekate does not recognize human gatekeepers and representatives. There is certainly an aspect of gatekeeping and initiation within this magickal current but She is the gatekeeper. She is the initiatrix.
To deny this is to deny Her. Many seem to forget this but that has no place in High Magick and within the Primal Current of Hekate it is seen as an abomination.
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Post by Nightshade 25.09.20 9:09

That is very wise advice and I subscribe to your words.
A good and fair ending to this subject.
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Post by Tiet 10.10.20 7:41

Hey James ..nice article mate!
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Post by AlexaAnghel 10.10.20 8:51

once it was very crowded from what I read here, a time when Victor raises some questions and some pretty interesting topics, but we are all getting older and we have to leave the place new generations ..thanks James for raising VF to the level launched!
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Post by Rhea Kaye 11.10.20 1:04

It looks like Mark continues with the BS though it's not surprising. The latest installment in Matthew's group is a rather embarrassing display where the members all simper up to the administration and everyone repeats, in unison, drink the Kool-Aid and obey Hecate's chosen ahem, I mean, Mark's explicit permission and guidance is needed to work with the pornographic egregore Sepheranz. (Did I spell that right?) Honestly each time I see it, it looks like a dirty name, and it then feels like I need to go wash myself with straight bleach. I guess that's to be expected when dealing with something that was created by a flawed mortal man and then lusted over en-masse by all of his followers. I was going to opt for more delicacy in discussing this online group, however, watching certain admins deliberately dispense misinformation about the Aset Ka despite having known about it, discussed it, and answered many questions about it over the years made that seem unnecessary.

The group can be funny to watch once you get past the initially dreary lull of grown adults looking to one guy for all their instructions and permission in magickal life as if they're spiritual children with no free will or agency of their own. All I can say is, to those who can touch his system and get something out of it without stepping in the massive pits leading to personal recession that he created, congratulations are in order, you've earned it.

We really do seem to thrive on contrasts. For instance, when it comes to those of us who got our start in Asetianism, it can be awesome to watch these things because it's like an initiation and highlights the serious rarity of the Aset Ka's approach to the occult. There is mere knowledge of something (the need for secrecy, the reasons for staying out of the spotlight, and the serious restrictions set in place on higher roads of the occult) and then there is the Understanding of it.

It's a lesson for us all on how humility and striving to control self instead of other people will only heighten inner strength, not weaken it. It's a simple lesson yet one that even many authors seem to fail at. In fact, I've grown a habit of observing some occult authors online which has been an interesting and enlightening experience. There is that contrast again - the Aset Ka really is a stronghold of truth in a world full of people seeking to abuse magick and spirituality for profit. So in a way, I feel personal gratitude at watching some of those things happen.

In this path, following on blind faith alone gets one nowhere quickly. The learning experiences can be found everywhere.

There's also the potential for an interesting topic in all of that - the underlying mechanisms behind feeding an egregore with blood and energy, using the wrong gateways and not being able to sense what it is intuitively before using it.

Luis Marques frequently warns his readers about the underlying dangers of what they are dealing with, in vampirism for instance with energy links, or techniques of oclumancy, to name just a couple out of many. I feel that's an honest road and one thing that makes me value it even more. Meanwhile, even though I have not yet visited Mark's work, I get the suspicion he never bothered to give a light warning to his seekers against randomly smearing their blood over sigil and things they haven't thoroughly investigated first. It seems, from the general feel of that online group, as if new people are encouraged on all sorts of things without having the knowledge of what they're dealing with.
Just sharing a few thoughts.

Anto, (and I suspect the Alexa account is you too, does your girlfriend know that you like to roleplay as her?) I really wish that if you were going to troll, that you could leave it to different threads and not ones with more seriousness.



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Post by James 11.10.20 5:38

Rhea Kaye wrote:It looks like Mark continues with the BS though it's not surprising. The latest installment in Matthew's group is a rather embarrassing display where the members all simper up to the administration and everyone repeats, in unison, drink the Kool-Aid and obey Hecate's chosen ahem, I mean, Mark's explicit permission and guidance is needed to work with the pornographic egregore Sepheranz. (Did I spell that right?) Honestly each time I see it, it looks like a dirty name, and it then feels like I need to go wash myself with straight bleach. I guess that's to be expected when dealing with something that was created by a flawed mortal man and then lusted over en-masse by all of his followers. I was going to opt for more delicacy in discussing this online group, however, watching certain admins deliberately dispense misinformation about the Aset Ka despite having known about it, discussed it, and answered many questions about it over the years made that seem unnecessary.  

The group can be funny to watch once you get past the initially dreary lull of grown adults looking to one guy for all their instructions and permission in magickal life as if they're spiritual children with no free will or agency of their own. All I can say is, to those who can touch his system and get something out of it without stepping in the massive pits leading to personal recession that he created, congratulations are in order, you've earned it.

We really do seem to thrive on contrasts.  For instance, when it comes to those of us who got our start in Asetianism, it can be awesome to watch these things because it's like an initiation and highlights the serious rarity of the Aset Ka's approach to the occult. There is mere knowledge of something (the need for secrecy, the reasons for staying out of the spotlight, and the serious restrictions set in place on higher roads of the occult) and then there is the Understanding of it.

It's a lesson for us all on how humility and striving to control self instead of other people will only heighten inner strength, not weaken it. It's a simple lesson yet one that even many authors seem to fail at. In fact, I've grown a habit of observing some occult authors online which has been an interesting and enlightening experience.  There is that contrast again - the Aset Ka really is a stronghold of truth in a world full of people seeking to abuse magick and spirituality for profit. So in a way, I feel personal gratitude at watching some of those things happen.  

In this path, following on blind faith alone gets one nowhere quickly. The learning experiences can be found everywhere.

There's also the potential for an interesting topic in all of that - the underlying mechanisms behind feeding an egregore with blood and energy, using the wrong gateways and not being able to sense what it is intuitively before using it.

Luis Marques frequently warns his readers about the underlying dangers of what they are dealing with, in vampirism for instance with energy links, or techniques of oclumancy, to name just a couple out of many. I feel that's an honest road and one thing that makes me value it even more. Meanwhile, even though I have not yet visited Mark's work, I get the suspicion he never bothered to give a light warning to his seekers against randomly smearing their blood over sigil and things they haven't thoroughly investigated first. It seems, from the general feel of that online group, as if new people are encouraged on all sorts of things without having the knowledge of what they're dealing with.
Just sharing a few thoughts.  

This was very well written! Shows a level of maturity that remains entirely unseen in Primal Craft circles with their now-recognizable sheep mentality and beta personalities. It’s a system that breeds weakness, instead of encouraging strength. That was a really good message in times like these where people come up with new traditions every day with a lot of posturing and the dissemination of highly diluted teachings.

It’s about time people reclaim primal magick and witchcraft.

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Post by Rhea Kaye 11.10.20 20:49

Thank you, and I do agree with you there. People should reclaim witchcraft. Unfortunately, Mark fills a need for some people. A certain inner void. His ego is like the perfect fit for the inner incompleteness of weak-minded followers. I'm just sad that people like him often end up taking advantage of others, but it also adds to the initiation of observing superficial layers of the occult.

His primal craft is just a game of savior culture and Christian undertones wearing the skin of dark and enlightening, flaming magick. At least, this is what I have seen when watching his fans.

I am a bit cautious about which works I will give the time of day to. While I understand that all knowledge must be fearlessly explored, there is a sense of wanting to preserve my time and effort for the best things I can find, and that is why I avoid a few voices who have been known to associate with him, at least for now.

Ultimately, all we have are ourselves and there are no saviors. The reality, one we must face and conquer like bloodied warriors, is much more attractive than belonging to a group or crowd, seeking recognition and some savior.

There lies a major danger of the occult, in my opinion... anything that takes the focus off development of Self and places that center within an outside source. Then life force gets wasted on mortal creations.

Maybe a few people will find value in the stuff that was exposed. I am hoping it at least leaves a few more wrists unscathed. 😛
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Post by Jonathan 14.11.20 14:37

Excellent, Mark Alan Smith just sent an email to his devotees with a long text on Qayin and he took my advice in consideration and had a copyeditor work through his text before sending it out. That's a good effort right there Mark. Major difference in language to all his previous emails, so clearly this is not written by him, at least not on its final form.

Bonus points for the mention of Giza! Easy to catch your mind current on this one. Well done, Mark.
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Post by Rhea Kaye 14.11.20 16:58

I'd like to get my hands on some of those newsletters. Especially the more rant-y ones.

For... for science, of course.
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Post by Jonathan 14.11.20 17:13

Rhea Kaye wrote:I'd like to get my hands on some of those newsletters. Especially the more rant-y ones.

For... for science, of course.

Many Primal Craft devotees are welcome to share them, even against Mark’s insistence about their privacy by the mighty word of the great Atlantean gatekeeper.
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Post by Rhea Kaye 14.11.20 20:17

"Dear Devotees,

A brief update on Queen of Hell - Inner Sanctum Edition, The Red King - Emperor Lucifer Edition and The Altar of Qayin - Arkonian Scythe Edition. The former (QofH and TRK) are on time and on track to be here end of this month/start of December. Once they have been hand-numbered, signed, sigilised and individually consecrated, I will then dispatch them to their new homes. The Altar of Qayin is all set. Finally. This has been a long road - weaving the power into the text and ensuring that all is in alignment with His Will and those of the Trident - but we are there. The text looks absolutely stunning and the power emanating from it is vast. You will all see and feel this next year, circa the end of March when this ground-breaking tome is released to you.


The Altar of Qayin

The book itself is a consummate path, taking the devotee - from first contact with the Lord of the Scythe - through His Wild Abandoned Domain, to the peak of Primal Power in this Current. For ten years I have been waiting to release this tome - all the while telling those looking for this darker aspect of the Arte to be patient. It is all about timing. Then was not the time - we had to lay the foundations and instigate the return of the Current, reigniting the Path of Flame in the hearts of Hecate's Trident Witch Kin. As we see around the world, the time for the Revelation of the Path of Qayin is now! Those of you who work through this tome will know Qayin - you will wield His Power! The huge significance of Qayin - the Future Paths in this Arte - and the praxis for merging with, and assuming, His Power - will all be revealed in The Talismanic Altar of Qayin.


The Limitless Power of Mind and Soul upon the Adversarial Path

Regarding the various world agendas out there - both those hidden and those in plain sight, yes, this affects our mundane lives. This has always been the way of mankind and the way of the physical world. This does not, however, mean that it should be allowed to restrict your spiritual growth. Quite the opposite in fact! Most of you will know already, that if you castigate or restrict the body - the mind and soul compensate by expanding and releasing more power. This can be seen from the expansion of artistic creative power (poetic, painting, and even magickal) demonstrated by individuals in any form of imprisonment. There are plenty of magickal practices that utilise techiques of suspension (Witch cradle, rope suspension, solitude and forest sojourn to name but a few) of body and senses in order to release and expand the True Magus Power.

With the various forms of restriction and castigation being enacted, withdrawn and re-implemented throughoutb the world, now, more than ever, you have the opportunity to expand your personal path and power. If you are locked down - turn the situation to your advantage. Your physical movement may be restricted - but your mind and soul are nothing if not free - more so now than ever before. The tighter the lockdown, the deeper the Magickal Praxis and the Greater the Potential for Consumption of Primal Craft Knowledge. The woman stuck indoors, looking out on the mundane realm from her Juliet balcony in Barcelona is as able to enter the Atlantean Depths, Qlippoth or Witch's Sabbat (or project mind and soul through planetary gateways to walk upon the face of the red planet) as the man sat at the foot of Giza. The world continues to turn, the political elites continue to wage war on the people and/or each other - but in the scheme of things, they are but tiny specks of cosmos. We are here to experience, to evolve and to expand our souls.. The destiny of the soul and that of the World Soul are inter-linked - and so we experience the events current to the particular time veil within which we are currently incarnate. But this is just one life - your soul is eternal, and it requires growth, expansion. The keys for such are held within the Primal Craft Grimoires. To an extant our path is Adversarial - and so we encounter obstacles and resistance - physical or otherwise. Some barriers you crash through - others, you simply rise above. Knowing which comes with knowledge of self, expansion of awareness and soul. These lockdowns/restrictions are the perfect times during which to begin fulfilling your own soul destiny.

As the world enters further turmoil we approach the Time of the Revelation of Qayin - brought forth in His tome.
This is the time to ignite and expand your soul path within the Primal Craft of Hecate's Witchflame Trident."

lol!

Honestly.... someone knows about Asetianism more than he cares to openly admit.
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Post by Nightshade 15.11.20 5:57

Well it's very possible that he reads Master Marques and follows his magickal work. Although that's to his merit if that's the case.
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Post by Victor 15.11.20 10:45

Any genuine sorcerous occultist worthy of such a name should eventually read Luis Marques and interact with his legacy at some point in the Journey.

Knowingly or unknowingly.
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Post by James 16.11.20 5:57

Rhea Kaye wrote:
Honestly.... someone knows about Asetianism more than he cares to openly admit.


They actually speak about what is going on in this forum in Matthew’s little group, not the public one. So they surely pay attention to some of you. I just rather not speak much of it not to get one of the individuals in trouble for sharing it with me.

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Post by PLM 16.11.20 18:16

Rhea, what you printed was his newsletter that is also found on the primal craft site that not only sells Mark's books but also other authors. As of his writing skills, I can honestly say, he can write. I can say that due to email exchanges that I have had with him. If it sounds as if he speaks another language other than english...it isn't him. He is English! He is well educated! You don't have to agree with him and his belief system but do take the time to read what he has written prior to speaking. He does give a warning in all his books about his rituals.

Seems that when this site has a thread that takes off....it involves everything but Aset Ka. How on earth you folks claim to be somehow more evolved than any other occult outfit is beyond comprehension. Someone posts something that one of the main characters doesn't care for and it is answered by a snide remark and the others simply follow. I am speaking in general here, as I feel there are some that will not be able to understand this fact if I do not make it well known.

James, what you just posted right above me.....well talk about something that sounds like a cult....ya just drove it home... I am out here as I see that only a bunch of whinny ass posers is found!

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Post by Jonathan 17.11.20 5:38

PLM,

First what you are saying to Rhea isn’t true. The primal craft site doesn’t sell books by other authors, it sells books by Mark Alan Smith only. Primal craft is Mark and a few sheepish drones like Matthew, Jason and Raven, it’s not really an actual occult order or temple.
What Rhea posted is the latest email sent to devotees in Mark’s personal mailing list, not the site. If you think he has good linguistic skills you haven’t been paying attention, just look at Mark’s previous message shared by James a few pages prior in this thread. It looks like something written by someone in primary school. Same situation is attested by the countless private communication from Mark to devotees easily available to those seeking out such information. He often doesn't express himself very well and his books are heavily post-edited, as is the latest mailing list entry motivated by what he read in here. Being born in England doesn’t automatically make someone capable of quality coherent writing. I’m personally aware of several compatriots of mine here in the States that can’t write better than monkeys, yet English is their primary and only language. And in case someone starts cherry picking what I say and calling me a racist I’m talking about ordinary white and entitled Americans.

You’re complaining about the lack of content on Aset Ka but that can be easily fixed by creating the content you wish to see. Be the change you want to see in the world, no? It's easy to just ask for others to do the work for you but that's not the way of the world, especially not in harsh and difficult paths such as Asetianism. You have several members in this forum who have been students of the Asetian path for decades, there just isn’t the motivation to constantly create new content that caters to the needs of newcomers. They must do their own hard work, their own research and their own praxis first. If anyone has valid questions, ask away and there is usually someone willing to share a thing or two, if the doubts are earnest.

Let me also add that much of this post took off in some form of comic relief, because much about the whole situation with primal craft is quite funny and ironic. There is nothing wrong with people actually sharing a laugh and having some fun among friends. That is what this thread reflects, besides the obvious exposure of what could be considered by the more elitist an occult fraud. So just cool off, there’s no need to be so heated up due to some people having a good time. Personally I have no invested interest against primal craft or their people. In the higher present reality of the occult and witchcraft they are pretty much no-players and have no actual relevance or influence in the underground. Go through the private libraries of the many initiatory orders out there and you won’t find Mark’s books present. Ask yourself why. Inquiry about primal craft to initiates of the likes of Ordem Peninsular, OTP, traditional witchcraft covens in Europe, including Hekatean ones, or even TFC and Temple of the Black Light and they might not have even heard about it and the ones who did couldn’t care less. So there is no emotional charge here, just some shared fun and a much needed call for awareness like in the threads about Father Sebastiaan or Michelle Belanger and their exploits.
If you feel so bothered by it to the point of insulting all users here as "whinny ass posers" when you barely know anyone then you should look within and see what's causing your own emotionally charged reaction.

Finally, Vampirism Forum isn't an airport. You don’t need to announce your departure.
Take care!
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Post by Rhea Kaye 17.11.20 9:43

Well said, Jonathan.
It's kind of fascinating sometimes to watch people. It seemed like this thread or even the forum in general has touched a nerve on some.
I guess that's a good thing, as it means they were affected and moved.
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Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 7 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

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