Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

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Post by Nightshade 17.11.20 15:08

Jonathan wrote:PLM,

First what you are saying to Rhea isn’t true. The primal craft site doesn’t sell books by other authors, it sells books by Mark Alan Smith only. Primal craft is Mark and a few sheepish drones like Matthew, Jason and Raven, it’s not really an actual occult order or temple.
What Rhea posted is the latest email sent to devotees in Mark’s personal mailing list, not the site. If you think he has good linguistic skills you haven’t been paying attention, just look at Mark’s previous message shared by James a few pages prior in this thread. It looks like something written by someone in primary school. Same situation is attested by the countless private communication from Mark to devotees easily available to those seeking out such information. He often doesn't express himself very well and his books are heavily post-edited, as is the latest mailing list entry motivated by what he read in here. Being born in England doesn’t automatically make someone capable of quality coherent writing. I’m personally aware of several compatriots of mine here in the States that can’t write better than monkeys, yet English is their primary and only language. And in case someone starts cherry picking what I say and calling me a racist I’m talking about ordinary white and entitled Americans.

You’re complaining about the lack of content on Aset Ka but that can be easily fixed by creating the content you wish to see. Be the change you want to see in the world, no? It's easy to just ask for others to do the work for you but that's not the way of the world, especially not in harsh and difficult paths such as Asetianism. You have several members in this forum who have been students of the Asetian path for decades, there just isn’t the motivation to constantly create new content that caters to the needs of newcomers. They must do their own hard work, their own research and their own praxis first. If anyone has valid questions, ask away and there is usually someone willing to share a thing or two, if the doubts are earnest.

Let me also add that much of this post took off in some form of comic relief, because much about the whole situation with primal craft is quite funny and ironic. There is nothing wrong with people actually sharing a laugh and having some fun among friends. That is what this thread reflects, besides the obvious exposure of what could be considered by the more elitist an occult fraud. So just cool off, there’s no need to be so heated up due to some people having a good time. Personally I have no invested interest against primal craft or their people. In the higher present reality of the occult and witchcraft they are pretty much no-players and have no actual relevance or influence in the underground. Go through the private libraries of the many initiatory orders out there and you won’t find Mark’s books present. Ask yourself why. Inquiry about primal craft to initiates of the likes of Ordem Peninsular, OTP, traditional witchcraft covens in Europe, including Hekatean ones, or even TFC and Temple of the Black Light and they might not have even heard about it and the ones who did couldn’t care less. So there is no emotional charge here, just some shared fun and a much needed call for awareness like in the threads about Father Sebastiaan or Michelle Belanger and their exploits.
If you feel so bothered by it to the point of insulting all users here as "whinny ass posers" when you barely know anyone then you should look within and see what's causing your own emotionally charged reaction.

Finally, Vampirism Forum isn't an airport. You don’t need to announce your departure.
Take care!

Now THIS is what I call driving it home. Excellent reply Jonathan, on every level.

I just wanted to ask PLM, out of fairness, that he please doesn’t compare this forum to those on primal craft. What people are doing here they are doing it out in the open, fairly and with honor, in a public forum, not hiding in their little groups like Matthew and others are doing about us. They’re welcome to join in and show us a different side of their nature, maybe a more elegant and honest approach, but you know that just won’t happen. Actually you saw Matthew joining here under Mark's explicit instruction in a desperate attempt to save face and quickly ran away with tail between his legs when he saw that this place is immune to manipulation.

In here we talk openly and are not scared of confrontation. We don’t hide behind little echo chambers. Many reading might not be aware of this but this forum is older than every book ever published by Mark Alan Smith. It’s older than primal craft. So it’s just pathetic to see Matthew trying to diminish and insult this forum and community in his limited circles while he has no idea what he is even talking about.

If Mark actually believes that what James has exposed is false then he is welcome to join in and clear it all up, but I suspect he's not the type to do so in a place where he might face opposition and isn't just speaking to a crowd of devoted fans. From my experience this community has always been open to fair and honest communication, even towards those who oppose them. Either way, whatever he decides to do, it's just not very wise to have his students ignorantly bash and libel a community that is much older than Mark's entire endeavor into the occult. Not very wise at all...
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Post by Sabbath 18.11.20 13:05

Unless one had been granted true insight by The Great One, all who take on the title of 'leader' or 'prophet' is bound to be a false shepherd. They seek to bind the minds of others, crippling their capacity to Reason, and reducing them to dumb animals.

One should never seek them out, nor should they consume whatever tainted knowledge they produce. For their knowledge is poison. A poison that cripples the mind. A poison that makes you co-dependent. And when that happens, you experience True Death. For when you give up independence, you relinquish everything. By giving up Independence, you submit to True Evil: The enslavement of your mind to anther's. To grant another authority over your mind.

To quote the Great One "A rational mind does not work under compulsion; it does not subordinate its grasp of reality to anyone's orders, directives, or controls; it does not sacrifice its knowledge, its view of the truth, to anyone's opinions, threats, wishes, plans."

To truly be alive, one must be Independent.

True greatness comes from within. It only comes through great effort, and your effort alone. For only through your only work can True Greatness be achieved.

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Post by Samantha 09.01.21 12:16

I have only just created this account to come here and thank everyone for this thread. I hope that this is acceptable and that I’m allowed to join for this reason, if not let me know.

I purchased several Primal Craft books and have contacted Mark Alan Smith about the rites, he told me that he only helps those who purchase directly from him and pay directly to him or Miskatonic Books, which seems maybe another front for Mark and Primal Craft. So I tell Mark this is unfair because I have the original books and paid premium for them, I should not have my practices limited because he didn't get the money directly. He insists that I must pay to him although there is another secret way. I ask him about what other way he says he can help if I take full body photos of myself with the books and also share with him my home address. What the actual fuck? What does he need my home address for? Full body photos? The guy is a creep!

I wanna thank everyone here for this amazing post! I found it searching online and this post is very important for people looking into Primal Craft as it can save them a lot of trouble and money. Wish I had found this post before wasting cash on these books. Only to find out they're full of nonsense and fiction from a creep.

Stay away from it. This is not a real tradition!

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Post by Ramla-Meryt 09.01.21 13:14

Samantha wrote:I have only just created this account to come here and thank everyone for this thread. I hope that this is acceptable and that I’m allowed to join for this reason, if not let me know.

I purchased several Primal Craft books and have contacted Mark Alan Smith about the rites, he told me that he only helps those who purchase directly from him and pay directly to him or Miskatonic Books, which seems maybe another front for Mark and Primal Craft. So I tell Mark this is unfair because I have the original books and paid premium for them, I should not have my practices limited because he didn't get the money directly. He insists that I must pay to him although there is another secret way. I ask him about what other way he says he can help if I take full body photos of myself with the books and also share with him my home address. What the actual fuck? What does he need my home address for? Full body photos? The guy is a creep!

I wanna thank everyone here for this amazing post! I found it searching online and this post is very important for people looking into Primal Craft as it can save them a lot of trouble and money. Wish I had found this post before wasting cash on these books. Only to find out they're full of nonsense and fiction from a creep.

Stay away from it. This is not a real tradition!

That is abhorrent. Thank you for posting in order to raise awareness.
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Post by Rhea Kaye 09.01.21 13:20

Hello Samantha. Whether you decide to stay or not, welcome to the forum.
All I can say is, WOW. That is so disgusting and creepy. Thank you for sharing that so others can hopefully see and remain safe and aware.
Best wishes.
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Post by Fallen 01.04.21 23:21

I am also new to the forum and am grateful for the insight and information about the primal craft and its author. But I have a few questions maybe someone could help me with. First are all of Marks books bogus? Because I have known of a few people who dislike Mark but say that his books are legitimate (his least the early books that is). Also does anyone have a suggestion for other books on the darker side of the occult? Please no EA Koetting or the like lol ^_^

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Post by Rhea Kaye 03.04.21 0:37

Hi, welcome to the forum.
If you're looking for some books about Hekate, I'd suggest the new one from Asenath Mason. I know you asked for no Koetting, and Ms. Mason is published through BALG, but her work has some credibility. In fact, there is a contribution from Jack Grayle in that book, and he is quite highly regarded in Hekatean witchcraft circles for his work.
The book looks incredible, honestly.
Other than that, I hear Jeff Cullen has a new book out called Liber Khthonia that seems to be getting a lot of favorable reviews.
And of course, no recommendation is complete without mentioning the works of Luis Marques.

Well, as for Mark's books, really, I'd recommend that you stay away from them. Just my view. They do not land favorably upon most people's subconscious minds. Mark's work has an uncanny tendency to amplify the ego problems of those following it, unless you're already initiated and experienced enough to pick out the many, many parts that are... lacking. Also, as said above, Mark's current is not ancient and doesn't connect to the real Hekate, only an egregore.
Hope this helps.
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Post by Stasya 03.04.21 14:56

Fallen wrote:I am also new to the forum and am grateful for the insight and information about the primal craft and its author. But I have a few questions maybe someone could help me with. First are all of Marks books bogus? Because I have known of a few people who dislike Mark but say that his books are legitimate (his least the early books that is). Also does anyone have a suggestion for other books on the darker side of the occult? Please no EA Koetting or the like lol ^_^

I have been lurking here and felt the need to chime in at this point. I have two things to say, one of which partially echoes what Rhea Kaye said including her book recommendations, although I don't agree with dismissing all of Mark's work. I followed Mark's work and have followed the primal current for years, and Queen of Hell by itself (detached from everything else Mark has done) is an excellent devotional work to Hecate. It is a complete grimoire that stands on its own. As for the other books, I've had direct contact with Lucifer through The Red King, and I think that book is also very good. The Scoprion God is interesting but starts to introduce some questionable things that feel out of place with the primal current, and then the sacrificial trilogy is very different and I feel where Mark lost touch with the current and Hecate (just my own feelings based on having all of the physical Primal Craft books). The early books are not bogus, but what one gets out of them, like most grimoires, will differ wildly for a large number of reasons.

With that said, unfortunately certain things about Mark have come to light, what has been shown in this thread and what I have seen elsewhere, for example what Samantha and James have talked about here, that make me question his motives, character, and the quality of his current output (beyond what I have already stated about the later books). I can't recommend purchasing his books based on that, unless Mark himself were to clear up everything, which I am doubtful will happen. In any case I hope this helps and you find what you are looking for.

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Post by Jonathan 03.04.21 18:09

Fallen wrote:I am also new to the forum and am grateful for the insight and information about the primal craft and its author. But I have a few questions maybe someone could help me with. First are all of Marks books bogus? Because I have known of a few people who dislike Mark but say that his books are legitimate (his least the early books that is). Also does anyone have a suggestion for other books on the darker side of the occult? Please no EA Koetting or the like lol ^_^

I would avoid Mark Alan Smith’s books not because the primal currents don’t exist but because it has been very much demonstrated that Mark has been removed and banished from it. Anyone who tries to “trademark” a current, especially one of a primal nature, or pretend to be its silly mortal gatekeeper, will find themselves lost into oblivion and that may very well describe the downfall we have all observed when it comes to Mark and some of his minions. He has lost touch with reality, has been obsessing about fictitious enemies and became what many have described as an unstable personality showing signs of fanaticism, which are all trademark signs of someone who failed said initiations so common among the Qliphothic pathways.
As Rhea referenced, when it comes to Hekate I would also recommend the work of Jack Grayle for a more historical approach and Asenath Mason for a more Qliphothic take. Some have suggested that Mark has “taken” from Asenath’s earlier work and honestly that wouldn’t surprise me, although that's up for debate and interpretation. Not really that important at this point.

As a final note, and reiterating the words of someone very credible within the community, I would suggest that if you really want to work with Hekate you find much purer gateways in the Asetian current as secretly taught by the Aset Ka than through Primal Craft. Not only is Asetianism a far more ancient tradition with a more genuine following among those in the hardcore occult underground and the nameless masters of magic and the mysteries, as the truly profound gateways presented by Asetian authors such as Luis Marques are on a much higher level than anything Mark can grasp or understand.

The Asetian path IS the actual primal current of magic. This is important to underline since many don't know it or understand it. The Aset Ka is the actual gateway to primal witchcraft.

So to conclude this make sure to always go to the purer sources, the most genuine and unfiltered currents. You’ll gain far more insight, growth and liberation than through the abridged versions of the Art as brought forward by Mark Alan Smith, EA Koetting, Michelle Belanger and Michael Ford.
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Post by MysticLightShinethForth 04.04.21 13:34

Jonathan, you mention how through Asetianism we can open up better and more reliable gateways to work with Hekate. We've had many discussions on Her in the Discord server. I don't remember all of them, but I believe we've touched upon Hekate in relation to Aset, in different ways. One of them was, I believe, through history and mythology, if they were in any way related. There seem to be certain clues spread around here and there that they indeed relate to each other. One of those examples is actually by there being, supposedly, some relation between Hekate and Anubis, and as we know, Anubis is the loyal ally and protector of Aset or Her Children by extension through His Children, the Anubians. This connection between Hekate and Anubis, then, was mentioned in a discussion relating Hekate as a potential face of Aset Herself but that, to me, is a very tricky question. However, my own question is simply this: are Hekate and Aset/Asetianism allied forces? It seems they're very compatible, to say the very least, and we have many Asetianists that are inclined and interested in working with Hekate and do work with Her so to me they appear very closely on good terms, as if being somehow allied which wouldn't surprise me. Well, the nature of your statement that you can open up better gateways to work with Hekate through Asetianism does seem to place them as allies, in theory, if one could call it that, no? But the main curiosity, perhaps, is any official statement on this by the Order itself - and many other have expressed similar wishes - but for that we can only keep our hopes. Smile
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Post by Jonathan 04.04.21 17:51

MysticLightShinethForth wrote:Jonathan, you mention how through Asetianism we can open up better and more reliable gateways to work with Hekate. We've had many discussions on Her in the Discord server. I don't remember all of them, but I believe we've touched upon Hekate in relation to Aset, in different ways. One of them was, I believe, through history and mythology, if they were in any way related. There seem to be certain clues spread around here and there that they indeed relate to each other. One of those examples is actually by there being, supposedly, some relation between Hekate and Anubis, and as we know, Anubis is the loyal ally and protector of Aset or Her Children by extension through His Children, the Anubians. This connection between Hekate and Anubis, then, was mentioned in a discussion relating Hekate as a potential face of Aset Herself but that, to me, is a very tricky question. However, my own question is simply this: are Hekate and Aset/Asetianism allied forces? It seems they're very compatible, to say the very least, and we have many Asetianists that are inclined and interested in working with Hekate and do work with Her so to me they appear very closely on good terms, as if being somehow allied which wouldn't surprise me. Well, the nature of your statement that you can open up better gateways to work with Hekate through Asetianism does seem to place them as allies, in theory, if one could call it that, no? But the main curiosity, perhaps, is any official statement on this by the Order itself - and many other have expressed similar wishes - but for that we can only keep our hopes. Smile

I would agree with this compatibility that you’re mentioning, even though we don’t have that official confirmation by the Order as you also rightfully noted. This is particularly true when it comes to the darker aspects of Hekate relating to the underworld and the forces of death, which have differences from the more palatable Hellenic approaches that you find in modern religious reconstructionism. So I can see how you would call them allied forces in some way, or better said both are spiritual streams in the eternal current that is Asetianism. In that sense the Asetian current opens up gateways to a far more raw direct contact with primal Hekate than whatever modern systems people like Mark came up with, disguising them up in Atlantis paint and fictional role-playing games clothing.

So sure one can take something from Mark's first book (the latest ones are entirely deprived of power) but why not go directly to the source at the true primal currents like that of the Aset Ka? It's like learning basic arithmetics when you could be learning rocket science...
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Post by Rhea Kaye 04.04.21 18:38

I feel that the Aset Ka surely holds many keys over the magick of Hekate and Lilith in ways other traditions do not. I didn't begin to nurture an interest in either until the energy behind the tweets of Master Marques changed around Samhain and they opened a certain current.
It seems like most of these people aren't working with Hekate at all and merely profane the magick. I am interested to see if more learning about this other Hekate takes place over the years, the Hekate that is quite separate from what every fluff deems as their "Dark Mother".
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Post by Nightshade 05.04.21 16:17

Rhea Kaye wrote:Hi, welcome to the forum.
If you're looking for some books about Hekate, I'd suggest the new one from Asenath Mason. I know you asked for no Koetting, and Ms. Mason is published through BALG, but her work has some credibility. In fact, there is a contribution from Jack Grayle in that book, and he is quite highly regarded in Hekatean witchcraft circles for his work.
The book looks incredible, honestly.
Other than that, I hear Jeff Cullen has a new book out called Liber Khthonia that seems to be getting a lot of favorable reviews.
And of course, no recommendation is complete without mentioning the works of Luis Marques.

Well, as for Mark's books, really, I'd recommend that you stay away from them. Just my view. They do not land favorably upon most people's subconscious minds. Mark's work has an uncanny tendency to amplify the ego problems of those following it, unless you're already initiated and experienced enough to pick out the many, many parts that are... lacking. Also, as said above, Mark's current is not ancient and doesn't connect to the real Hekate, only an egregore.
Hope this helps.

Am I the only one who feels discouraged by Jeff Cullen’s new foray into occult writing due to his ceaseless obsession with his body, vanity and posting nudes online. I think someone forgot to teach him about the issues of advanced metaphysics with an excess of muscular mass.

Anyways at least he seems down to earth and not delusional like Mr. Mark Alan Smith. Last I heard from his followers it seems that he has been going nuts about seeing danger at every corner and questioning even his own shadow. Also has been writing how everyone has been metaphysically attacking him, which I've wondered if he actually means this forum without realizing no one here would do anything to harm him. No need to be afraid. Or maybe he’s just scared of Mr. James Dunn who eventually became like a household name among those at Primal Craft and is treated as someone scarier than Belial himself.
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Post by Rhea Kaye 05.04.21 18:02

Nightshade, thank you for saying this.
I've tried to remain open-minded about this guy but I took one look at him and just had this immediate distaste. His social media is an infinite, bottomless pit in which he covertly (and sometimes not so covertly) begs for attention using his body.
Not only was I left wondering at the extent to which he can perform advanced magick with his muscular bulk, but I also kept noticing his penis obsession.  The man seems deeply obsessed with male-centered art. Most of it seems like it has to feature an overly glorified male body part somewhere in order for him to feel like it is complete. This didn't sit well considering it is supposed to be a Hekatean tradition centered around the darker powers of the feminine. I suspect that if one somehow took a look at whatever tomes are located within the libraries of serious Orders and covens, Jeff's penis doodle book would not be there. But well, perhaps I'm being too harsh, but I am used to a much more legitimate tradition in Asetianism, so I cannot help but look down my nose at this in disgust.
He's a moderator at this large Hekate study group on Facebook which I've been also nurturing quite a distaste for. The leader of this group seems to think if she amasses enough authors of Hekate groups it will make the place better, meanwhile every post is something fluffy that insults the very tradition. (People offering McDonald's French fries to Hekate, people thinking every glance, gust of the wind and minor mundane occurrence imaginable is a special sign from Hekate, and so on.) Same woman collects praise from people in some weird parade to her ego, on occasion, where she claims to be a voice of Hekate, has people calling her their mother and claiming that Hekate "shines out of her eyes".
I'm left questioning even the validity of that group because among that mod team is a new author who is known for self-promotion to annoying levels with his Psychic Witch book, something with no credibility or higher gnosis. Same guy praises Belanger as someone very important and experienced. It all leaves me wondering, I guess.
I bring that up because it seems like those subtle messages from the Aset Ka lately in their tweets, in which they opened certain gateways, came at an interesting time. It seems like pathways toward working with the real Hekate are just as restrictive as those of real vampiric magick, with just as many delusional pretenders.

I think Mark Alan Smith has completely lost his mind, if there was any of it left. One of his recent newsletters sounds alarmingly fanatic and mentally unstable. He even screams about his supposed enemies sending death energy and trying in vain to bring about his downfall using attacks, and well, I'm all but certain that Mark is talking specifically about Vampirism Forum and the Asetianist community. Especially since the community has been around so long, even before he thought of publishing anything and this thread alone has more than 10,000 views. I believe their damage control attempts here and elsewhere falling flat have led them into an imbalanced desperation.
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