Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Page 2 of 7 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Tehom on 19.09.20 17:50

I agree with you, Rhea. Education is the most-needed system in the Occult.
Tehom
Tehom
Insider
Insider

Number of posts : 134
Location : On an island, in the ocean.
Registration date : 2014-07-13

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Jonathan on 19.09.20 17:52

Rhea Kaye wrote:I definitely understand what is being said here,  also how too much focus on frauds can cause undesired effects.  However, and this is just my opinion, stuff like PC is only useful to that higher degree discussed if you already possess certain keys of initiation and already know what you're doing.
For those who are new and lack that, PC and Mark's delusions can be a lot more dangerous.
And, while the occult world indeed operates under a sometimes brutal "survival of the fittest" natural law, these warnings can be what propels people into taking a different fork in their road, one that leads to greater health and spiritual success. So I say, I support it when it is held in balance.

Just look at the popular posts here, the ones about Belanger, Father Sebastiaan and even the fake Dark Marks, and the sheer amount of hits or views they received. I am sure many people were helped by it.

I agree with this. Also let's not forget that this forum gets a crazy amount of daily hits with many just watching and observing from the sidelines without participating. Like it or hate it this place is a reference, so we do have some responsibility when it comes to that.
The purity of occult traditions and the flow of magickal currents is very important, otherwise people only get diluted modern stuff like Mark Alan Smith and Koetting or new age otherkin kids lost in their own delusions like Matthew howling to the moon hoping for a physical transformation.
Jonathan
Jonathan
Master
Master

Number of posts : 2720
Location : United States
Registration date : 2008-06-05

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Maxx on 19.09.20 17:56

Rhea Kaye wrote:
Just look at the popular posts here, the ones about Belanger, Father Sebastiaan and even the fake Dark Marks, and the sheer amount of hits or views they received. I am sure many people were helped by it.

wow.  I lightly disagree here.  I do not believe anyone was changed in the overall direction their life was taking them when they came across this material.  If they are not mixed up when they got here, what were they doing on the road after dark alone and by themselves?  With no sense or intuition they will not leave after reading that and change their whole direction around with a sparkling light hitting their head from above.  Sorry I am not seeing it although it seems like a feel good moment in thinking that way.  Like feeding the hungry one meal on Thanksgiving and feeling good about it but they are hungry the next day just as much.  Why not teach them to work in a restaurant and not be hungry anymore and give them more time to work on a permanent solution?  Just a passing thought.  lol.
Maxx
Maxx
Master
Master

Number of posts : 4303
Age : 105
Location : USA
Registration date : 2008-06-30

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Maxx on 19.09.20 18:18

Remember, even the Asetian Bible will suggest working in other systems and other magical currents to familiarize self with as much material as possible.  This is a good self education process and actually is the best way to determine fake or real.  Each person is very different than the next one and relates to just about everything on a different level.  It is good to learn how ones own vibrations work within the best  area.  You would have no interest in what I am interested in and vice versa.  But being led by your intuition opens the doorway to understanding on your own terms you can understand the subject.  Otherwise, I would not want you selecting what is good or bad for me.  Ha.  

One should not make the mistake of thinking this is the only place one can obtain info regarding magical systems out there.  Matter of fact, there is no magic or systems taught on this site.  It is all referred to and spoken about.  No one will ever be in any danger here.
Maxx
Maxx
Master
Master

Number of posts : 4303
Age : 105
Location : USA
Registration date : 2008-06-30

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Rhea Kaye on 19.09.20 18:22

Just in case anyone is interested. I know that people lie on the Internet all the time, but unfortunately this is 100% real.

And I do still understand both sides of the coin. Yes, there are things like basic intuition and common sense needed if one is going to venture into the occult. And still, I believe that sometimes people need some impetus to discard various rotten branches. And sometimes they might need a bit of guidance. I don't believe posts are really... a spark of light from above as you say. I think they are more of a nudge. And sometimes that nudge can send people off in a completely different direction if they are open to being wrong.



Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Screen11
Rhea Kaye
Rhea Kaye
Expert
Expert

Number of posts : 1276
Location : USA
Registration date : 2013-12-18

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Jonathan on 19.09.20 18:35

Thank you for verifying the claims yet again.

I wasn't doubting you but I guess people always wonder how true some things really are, especially when as outrageous as this. So that is one of those typical cases when a guy bashes role-players while engaging in obvious role-play at the same time. Well played.

I'm starting to see why they hate OP James so much over there. It's called insecurity.
Jonathan
Jonathan
Master
Master

Number of posts : 2720
Location : United States
Registration date : 2008-06-05

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Maxx on 19.09.20 18:42

I see it, Rhea. But I say, where was he before he came to this condition.  He was out in another area chasing the ego and power and ignorance.  What this has reference to is something that is not spoken of here.  You have attachments of lower level beings guiding and directing and that is certain...all of his confusion is not going to be relieved because he saw our conversation and it is going to change his life.  That is a soft fluffy thought but it is not going to happen.  He will continue to be led because he is unbalanced in his life and is off chasing the dark beings entirely.  Not understanding his need to wake up and find balance to work in all areas of his life will he find solace in his walk.

Being told to stop involvement in PC will only mean he will head off in some other area because that is where his interest is at this time.  It will change for a short time and then on the road again with Willie and the Boys to find another fork in the road.  I do not buy it.  This is a need to work within self rather than searching for magical realms.

As far as a comment that this entire position is a fake direction will not have any difference in the outcome.  It will be just as real to a person out of balance as one that is more closely aligned towards an awakening to real life advancement.  Did his eyes change back to normal reactions where ever he stopped dealing with the real issue?  I guarantee it shows up in another area of his life.  It is still there.
Maxx
Maxx
Master
Master

Number of posts : 4303
Age : 105
Location : USA
Registration date : 2008-06-30

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Maxx on 19.09.20 18:56

Tehom I see you watching and I know you have enough experience that you can come in and add to this.....right? I know you know what you are talking about.
Maxx
Maxx
Master
Master

Number of posts : 4303
Age : 105
Location : USA
Registration date : 2008-06-30

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Rhea Kaye on 19.09.20 18:57

Don't get me wrong, I don't at all think this is meant to change his perspective in general. Personally I am unbothered by this guy, I don't know him and given that one of his former buddies is an unstable toad torturer, his own intuition is probably not developed enough to matter.

But looking at this from another angle, it does help people. For instance, imagine dropping a big amount of cash on his books only to be used by the spirits for being moronic and power hungry, or finding the works are extremely limited in where they can take you after all. If anything, maybe some people will be able to save for something more worthwhile instead.

As a slight aside, I want to mention that someone recommended him to me years ago when I was searching for systems about witchcraft. I communicated with Mark personally, in regards to his books being available in pdf form if at least one physical copy was bought.  He was polite enough and I had the means to buy his book, I think at that time it was the third one. However, something stopped me. I didn't feel "right" about it and this followed me around every time I had the means to purchase. I would initially get excited - due to the rave reviews of course, but when it came time to commit to buying, I couldn't bring myself to do it for some reason. So, posts like this are nice, especially as this information comes out, because it confirms those impulses. I still say the rotten coming to the surface is always nice and a fun thing to behold, even if no divine enlightenment comes out of it one can still liken it to free entertainment.
Rhea Kaye
Rhea Kaye
Expert
Expert

Number of posts : 1276
Location : USA
Registration date : 2013-12-18

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Tehom on 19.09.20 18:58

It reflects nothing but a someway insane mind to state things of this kind so nonchalantly. I wonder to why they would choose to present it in this way—       a bold, homicidally-fuelled excerpt lacking in any form of evidence. Online, publicly, to a wide audience. Representing himself and this experience with these words, this context.
This comes across as conjecture, and the reasoning of not being partisan to the opinions of masses does not serve well here as he intends to correlate a definitive point to these people. He is positioning himself separate to these "mentally ill persons" so exercises some awareness of their ways. It does not then follow logically to conduct his opinion like this, at least by sane rationale.
Serious experiences come with a serious change in attitude toward them, this I Know, like many others here. So even in the event he tells the truth, why tell it in this way? the thinking Practitioners are left only to conclude he is unhinged, as as happened here. I do not understand.
Tehom
Tehom
Insider
Insider

Number of posts : 134
Location : On an island, in the ocean.
Registration date : 2014-07-13

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Maxx on 19.09.20 19:06

Nightshade wrote:

Maxx, be careful with what you say or they might unleash a bloodthirsty Sepheranz upon you. lol

I thought about what you said and I have decided I would be more afraid of some of my ex-wives than what they would turn loose on me.  Even some of my wild girl friends would be the same.  Some things are just very frightening thinking about those possibilities.  lol.
Maxx
Maxx
Master
Master

Number of posts : 4303
Age : 105
Location : USA
Registration date : 2008-06-30

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Maxx on 19.09.20 19:09

Tehom. How about creating the appearance of fear to enter a possibility of moving it into the next phase, and as you say, "opening the door".
Maxx
Maxx
Master
Master

Number of posts : 4303
Age : 105
Location : USA
Registration date : 2008-06-30

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Tehom on 19.09.20 19:16

Barring that, I would only echo what else has been said, Maxx.  But this is really none of my business, anyway ...  I have not spoken with this Person. I will only criticise Mark with reasonable supposition because of what new information has come of him, here. There is no point to me in using this other individual to represent Mark at this time, he is doing enough of that by himself.


In regard to your latest comment ... keeping that nose busy, I see.
Tehom
Tehom
Insider
Insider

Number of posts : 134
Location : On an island, in the ocean.
Registration date : 2014-07-13

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Maxx on 19.09.20 19:19

the hounds of the baskervilles
Maxx
Maxx
Master
Master

Number of posts : 4303
Age : 105
Location : USA
Registration date : 2008-06-30

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by PLM on 19.09.20 21:12

This is actually all interesting. Rhea, did that come from face book that you posted there? It certainly looks as though it did. I have several wiccan communities that I belong to on face book and to be honest with you, I don't read much of what they post with the exception of "once in awhile". Smile It is only when something that my eyes will come across that strikes me as interesting and believable that I take the time to read what is said.

The internet, I believe you have stated this before, is full of fake identities. Nothing near to what the individual is like. It doesn't matter if it is on a site like this or a more socially driven site such as face book. During my younger years, I ventured out to try and meet like minded individuals....not much success there. I did however come across lots of individuals that were a lot like Matthew Robson.

Delusional? Insane? Perhaps, or attempting to gain favor in those that read his words as "special." You that, should get to know that guy...he's so advanced sort of attitude. I find it pathetic but it does happen more than one thinks.

I have walked away from a lot of people in my years as well as systems. I find this forum interesting as it does stand out a little differently.

With that said, no matter what you might feel is destructive for another, no matter how you say it, no matter how many warnings or evidence of such you offer. People will always do what they will. Those that are posting such things are simply not doing the work intended. They are not working solitary so that connections can be made. Sounds to me as though they are looking for validation from others. That can be a disaster just waiting to happen. With luck, some will wake up and start to honestly look to develop. Others will not. Without a doubt, Rhea, you have a good heart!

I have read the Asetian Bible, even though it has been years ago it did not ring for me as my path. Yet, I most certainly have been enjoying the communications here on this site. I know, I rarely comment but I do read and learn about your ideas personally as well as the others that post. Most importantly, I learn about another's system of belief and how they deal with others that are not apart of that system.

I have rambled here so I apologize for that. Have a wonderful night, Rhea.

PLM
Outsider
Outsider

Number of posts : 36
Location : Washinton USA
Registration date : 2020-05-03

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Victor on 20.09.20 7:25

To anyone with some level of experience with initiatory witchcraft, when we see an average Joe claiming or even just implying that they own a certain current or deity that alone is a strong indication that they hold no magickal power nor an understanding of the old mysteries.

That much should be clear. Even without all the evidence already provided which only further validates what was already obvious.

Master Marques in the introduction chapter of his Liber Aeternus, Book of Orion, provides you with the psychological tools to see through these situations, so make a good use of such tools of the Art. They are all valuable weapons in your arsenal of initiation and magickal operation.

But then again, I’m not comparing them in any way. Marques moves through the higher echelons of the occult world, in his legendary silence having earned the respect, honor and bows even from Magisters of other secret Orders without having ever demanded or asked for it, with a set of initiates of the highest calibre within the magickal arts. As for Mark Alan Smith, despite not having the respect even from within his own group and constantly demanding to be followed without question, his legacy and most exemplary initiate is online werewolf Matthew Robson.
These things exist on entirely opposite realms of the occult spectrum and reveal part of why there is negativity directed towards Aset Ka and Asetianism - lack of access. People often attempt to diminish and discredit what they can’t reach. Miss Belanger will tell you all there is to know about that.

James, as others have said, don’t hold a grudge and just celebrate it instead. If your path is through the witchcraft of Hekate or the dark gateways of the Qliphothic abyss, from the adversarial nature that you have shown in here I say that you are more aligned with those forces than the likes of Matthew, Mark & Co. That spark of fire and an intelligent rebel nature against those confused within oppressive mortality are soulsigns to all Draconian paths, including the much demonized draconic tradition of the Order of Aset Ka.

Em Hotep.
Victor
Victor
Adept
Adept

Number of posts : 543
Location : A pool filled with naked horny vampire girls.
Registration date : 2008-06-12

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by MysticLightShinethForth on 20.09.20 7:40

It'll be a subjective notion, but the energy signature or feeling of his words in that message or e-letter doesn't come off very sounding aright. There's some feeling that strikes me in it that it's like he's coming out of some place of hypnosis into his own world of beliefs, which might read as delusion but which I'm careful to judge at the moment, or just being unknowing of how that impression passes off or gets received by others - the failure to mediate his world to the worlds of others. If it is indeed a legitimate world in the first place and it isn't as others have said here that he's cut off from that current and he's merely rambling his own egregoric nonsense and/or delusions.

That aside, however, there's the strong notion within that group, at the moment - a kind of narrative - seemingly perpetrated by Mark Alan Smith himself (?) or in combination with this other guy Matthew, that it is to be run as a "cultus" so-called, so they're using that banner to justify a cult like mentality or hierarchical kind of structure of power in my own observation, of him being seen as Gatekeeper or almost Chosen, it almost appears. How would you say that way of going about or reasoning stands in relation to a legitimate Left Hand Path? Is there ever any such justification for a "cultus" that is legitimate? If not, perhaps, in general, are there specific exceptions to this? Is there a "rule" to prevent such? Or, maybe more accurately, there is a form of "anti-rule" to prevent falsely authoritative rules themselves to come into being, such as would often be the case on a Right Handed Path (read Wicca and the "Threefold Law", Christian morality of unconditional love to all in spite of facing bitter enemies, severe disrespect and laying oneself on the floor as a doormat for them without personal integrity or self-respect due to a "fear of God" - becoming a psychologically harmful enterprise of imbalance to Self and erasure of personal boundaries as well as suppression of true feelings that should otherwise naturally be reinforced to stand strong within oneself and not tolerate insidious harm under naive and foolish presumptuous notions of so-called "goodness" being a weak and submissive slave in fact) with the LHP being more Adversarial in nature. So that is the common consensus based on a natural and organic understanding of truth from an Adversarial perspective and standpoint that is liberating in nature but simply based upon premises of natural balance and individual responsibility instead of man-made laws and fabricated order? [...]

[...] But, can, let's say, for instance, legitimate occult Orders be seen as such, or would they ever be run in such a way to be deemed in any way like a so-called "cultus"? Maybe the definition behind his words on the use of the term "cultus" was slightly different than an actual cult, but, hey, no cult is going to work if it's directly stated as one so it has to go under a very careful, elaborate guise and a pretext excusing that guise. Not making that accusation in a baseless way or at all, necessarily, as I'm not yet versed well enough with this Primal Craft group or even current so much, but pointing out my observation and putting it to question here to see what others' views might be and how they relate to the situation, perhaps with more substantial evidence than me - of which I only come with my own brief observation and intuitive feeling for all that I can but which can confirm what others have said here thus far as well.

And, also, if now indeed Mark seems himself as Chosen in that tradition of Primal Craft, how would its implications look like in the future decades or centuries when he's no longer here as he's not going to live for hundreds of years presumably? lol Where would they turn to then? Would they have to get a new "Chosen" in his stead? Would it become like the Catholic Church with successive Popes representing Jesus Christ on Earth? lol Or is that the way it is meant to be run at all? And how did the past look like when people may have worked with the same current but potentially under different names (?), or the same names (of their deities, rites and practices) but in secret or hard to trace by history of such hidden covens, again as an open but speculative question? I'm also trying to keep a fair and open mind in what I write here, at least towards the current itself, so that the rightful things are rightfully respected but merely skeptically criticizing Mark himself as an authority figure. Is there, per chance, a real and hidden tradition to it - to that current - apart from what is known publicly about Primal Craft? I can't speak for it since I'm not too involved with that tradition or current. But it doesn't make sense for it to take the formation of a so-called "cultus" or hierarchical structure of mortal "Gatekeepers" (if I've interpreted it right) under the light of what some of you here have said about the Primal Currents of Witchcraft (mentioned by Nightshade) and the Adversary Road of the Left Hand Path (mentioned by Jonathan) which rings far more true to my ears. [...]

[...] Otherwise what's the difference between it and Christianity, in terms of organizational and authority structure? Why would one on the Left Hand Path ever wish to associate with that merely in principle of it or come remotely close to bringing in such similarity if true? The formation of the channels is how the water will flow so molding it in the same design is going to give a similar effect on the mental form, given the difference of what type of liquid or content runs through it, however, but Christianity produces and has produced religious and mental slaves through its system. If these others take after the same model how will their minds be shaped? I'm not sure if this is an accurate analogous example to offer a fair comparison, however, given that it may or may not involve deeper intricate details and complexities, if they're at all justifiable in a LHP point of view, such as their own reasoning for it with deeper context in Mark's e-letter or message. But what do you think of such possibilities? Similar principles, similar outcomes? Or is it - and would it be - different?

Keep in mind that I'm trying to be fair towards the Primal Craft practitioners and tradition but merely criticizing or being skeptical of the approach by Mark. So I hope I don't come off as outright offensive, rude or disrespectful towards that path as that's not my intention or meaning at all, but actually have deep respect for those entities, rites and magical practices myself, mostly at least - that is, if excluding certain elements like the to me presupposed egregoric shapes and sigils as well as mere thought forms of the author, if that's correct, as some of you mention - but not being too well versed with either of them, neither the actual Current nor the false egregoric shapes and thought forms (the latter which might albeit be rather fortunate, hehe...).
MysticLightShinethForth
MysticLightShinethForth
Expert
Expert

Number of posts : 1003
Location : Sweden
Registration date : 2014-02-02

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Maxx on 20.09.20 7:49

and how do you think that assessment would help James?
Maxx
Maxx
Master
Master

Number of posts : 4303
Age : 105
Location : USA
Registration date : 2008-06-30

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by MysticLightShinethForth on 20.09.20 8:09

Maxx wrote:and how do you think that assessment would help James?

Sorry? Not sure what you mean or if you replied to somebody else. I pointed out my observation; it might confirm his own to that extent and lend corroborating strength and realistic support as such, based upon observed truth (as well as a framework of certain thought relating to what we've all discussed about the Left Hand/Adversarial Path which should corroborate more to his point of it being out of alignment with said principles) - although mine might be more limited than his own but it should nevertheless support the same facts but to a lesser extent perhaps. Not all I said were facts and that was clearly pointed out, I hope, as some were mere questions and others speculation, but it seems to go in a common direction of that there's something skewed with Mark's stance and standpoint himself at the moment, if he did indeed come out of favor with the current of Primal Craft itself by lending himself to the futility of his own ego which ties in with your own supposition as well.

What else did you have in mind, Maxx?
MysticLightShinethForth
MysticLightShinethForth
Expert
Expert

Number of posts : 1003
Location : Sweden
Registration date : 2014-02-02

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Maxx on 20.09.20 8:22

Possibly a more condensed version which would enable a person with acute anxiety to flow through rather than spending an afternoon searching point to point and questioning several possibilities seeking an answer to a problem.  I would not think one in that state would spend time comparing one window with another while being confronted with a major problem.
Maxx
Maxx
Master
Master

Number of posts : 4303
Age : 105
Location : USA
Registration date : 2008-06-30

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Maxx on 20.09.20 10:17

I found this interesting and one can even view this as a part of this overall discussion.

The truth can never be bad, nor can it be discouraging or demoralizing. It may in some cases appear very difficult because of our own limitations, but this does not justify us in turning from truth to nurse our gievances. Even the gravest injustice should lead to better understanding rather than criticism and condemnation. No one is completely guiltless, nor is anyone completely guilty. All adver­sity is opportunity in disguise. We learn from everything; therefore everything helps us to grow. Growth in turn helps us to think better and live better, and so we move on along the great pathway of evolu­tion. ~ Manly P. Hall (Horizon Magazine, Autumn 1957, p. Cool
Maxx
Maxx
Master
Master

Number of posts : 4303
Age : 105
Location : USA
Registration date : 2008-06-30

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Sypheara on 20.09.20 12:18

So i'll bite.

I left posting on forums around 2013, so you'll have to bear with me. For full disclosure, I am Sypheara / Matt in the above posts. Im a temple initiate of Primal Craft, what I say here is in a personal capacity. I won't be discussing many of the points above, mainly because I feel they are disingenuous - and designed to cause and sow discord for no real good discernible reason. I don't know of anyone in this forum, for good or for ill, but I feel it is worth a single post for the genuine out there who want some background information.

This is all, in the main, fallout caused by James being simply told no. Lets have a look and focus on the facts. This is not an attempt at character assassination, I just want to give my (our) position on it. As far as I'm concerned, it is over with, as someone who runs that group.

The statement of conduct people are waving about was written with James explicitly in mind. He at no point approached Primal Craft in any respect, as far as can be discerned. Asking Mark, he has never written, isn't on any subscriber list, nor did he contribute, into our facebook group, anything of worth. In fact, he went out his way to simply via manipulative words, try to twist other peoples statements. The time one time he contributed, was a question in regards to Lelands Aradia and was not in relation to the actual Primal Craft current.

Off the back of some regrettable instances of legitimate copyright theft (someone attempting to illegally reprint the currents work) as well as the toad incident(which im actually very glad people are generally aware of), some house cleaning was in order.

I felt that James's interest in the current was not genuine, actively harmful, and as such removed him from the group.

A couple of points:

The devotee in question James like to bang on about went off half cocked at Larry Roberts of Miskatonic books calling him a price gouger. He is anything but, just go look at his actual store page. He is the only official stockist of PC Grimoires outside JD Holmes.. that same girl is a staunch devotee of PC who unfortunately got herself drawn into things thinking she was 'defending the current'.. she made a mistake of naivety and coming from a good place (who wants people to be scammed?) but did it in the public domain. This was unjustly damaging to Larry´s business, and caused him real grief.

It was insisted that she please stop. Once furnished with facts she realized she was wrong and did the right thing and apologized. There was another person that was pressing the issue with her - James Dunn. This was noted as just one of many incidents (see the following). Once it was factored in, it was decided that he had broken sacred space rules and should no longer have access to the group.

Note not once, had we seen him talk about spiritual evolution or the work or anything along those lines with genuine feeling... he was just noted to go onto other Hecate-esque forums / pages - ask neophyte level questions - then come back onto the group and try and lecture people there.

Once removed, he tried this on the Hekates Crossroads group.. and got the thread locked in short order by the admins for his troubles (again, see below for a stellar example of a reply).

He also continued to personally harass some of our members, who pm'ed me that he would not leave them alone even when requested. One of them has a past in a damaging organization, and she told me she got serious alarm bells from James's continued insistence at communication when he was told to desist.

She also told me he had privately communicated elements of praxis that were not only harmful, but antithetical to the current (James wanted to replace all blood given devotion with sexual fluid, in complete contrast to the teachings of the current which is a Blood Arte)

His mantra when challenged about incidents such as the above is 'Only the Gods can judge me.' I don't have to echoes Marks words in saying that is a sociopathic position to hold. Re the organization of the current - it is no different to lineaged witchcraft traditions seen elsewhere. It has a magister, and lines of initiation. It is not a free for all.

People have to mindful as to what was also occurring at the time. The awful crime committed by Yuri Mcglinchley - who slammed a toad into concrete ( he put it in a plastic bag and slammed it until it was dead. Information that came direct from the person that stood right next to him when he did it and decided not to intervene) in order to try and begin the Rite of the Sacred Waters of the Moon, was still fresh in peoples minds. Well.. some things needed to be said and done, and reiterated in light of that.

In regards to Yuri, Mark still holds all of the emails from him asking about the toad rite - which show clearly his insistence on performing the path of sacrifice – the replies from the mother temple state he was not ready for it, not good for it (meaning not stable enough) and that the in the Primal Current Toad Rite we do NOT kill toads. Yet off he went, high on drugs, and killed a toad ..he thus failed to get any further in the Current and opened up the curse in himself.

And knowing all this was going on, in the case of copyright infringement mentioned at the start, when said person was asked to desist and apologise for copying books and selling them on where was James? Encouraging him on publicly.

So with that in mind, this is why James was removed. I have no desire to continue on a witchhunt - my posts are purely reactive, from James trying to continue this in multiple places after he gets shut down again, and again. Not by me or Mark, but by other people.

As someone on that Hekate Crossroads thread succinctly put, who is in no way connected to PC nor a devotee of the current.

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Captur10

As for my own shared post on Lycanthropy. I stand heavily behind it - whilst it is against sacred space to share screens from that group, i'm more than aware it is somewhat public and might have a wide audience. Whilst it shows great worm energy to breach sacred space, I'll offer you all some background information. The ritual that transformation happened within, happened in the presence of Sorita D'este and multiple Covenant of Hecate members at a retreat where it was conducted. It was Sorita who narrated back to me the physical changes, because I was too far gone within the actual workings itself. That should give you a sense of veracity for what I relate - the full circumstance be found on my blog.

It is my duty to not lie and to be direct with people on that page, as someone who is helping to teach the current. To do otherwise would to be to fail in that. As such, I have to relate my own experiences. If other people doubt that those physical changes can occur, I simply contend that you have not worked them to a level of full possession. It can be quite frightening, and it would not be fair on devotees to teach / talk about those aspects without telling them to be cautious. It took me by surprise, and by that point I had many years of working in possession with spirits.

With all that said, for those who are interested, you know where we are and I welcome everyone who wants to constructively participate in the current in the group. My contact details are also no great secret - so if you have questions on the current, and not the endless drama being propagated by people who simply wish to claim what is not theirs to claim, you know also, where to find me.

Assistance will be rendered at no monetary cost to you, and probably some personal cost to myself. This is all i'll say here, as I think anyone here knows how 'feeding into something' is a lost cause.

The final note will also be as follows. I have had dms from people in our community that also says James is speaking on behalf
of those who follow Asetianism. They say they have no info as to who the guy is, are secretive and insular, and therefore generally rather annoyed that he is giving them a bad name to other Currents. I will be honest in saying that, I have zero idea or interest into what Asetianism is or the context around this so take this all with a pinch of salt. But this gives another useful piece of data as to how he has been flitting between homes, causing issue rather than contributing.

A pattern indeed, that with every day justifies his removal from our community.

All the best,

In nomine Hecate,

Matt

~S~





Sypheara
Beginner
Beginner

Number of posts : 7
Location : United Kingdom
Registration date : 2020-09-20

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Maxx on 20.09.20 12:38

Good.  There are always two sides to every story.  Personally I can say that I went through two of the Primal Craft books and ended it at that point.  I told Mark I find it easier to kill a human than to kill any animal at this point so I am familiar with the workings of PC.  You can also see here another account of PLM which also did go through 3 or 4 of the books and designed her own rituals as needed personally with the system.  As she stated, the magical current is real and I do agree with that.

The problem seems to be with some of the personal issues with Mark but that is not our problem here. That is for the individual to decide on their own if and when they take up the system like anything else.  Thanks for your input on this.  I wish we could all see other accounts of these same types of scenes in order to make up ones own individual mind and not a group mind.  Individually is how it should be done.

Thanks again.
Maxx
Maxx
Master
Master

Number of posts : 4303
Age : 105
Location : USA
Registration date : 2008-06-30

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Sypheara on 20.09.20 12:49

Thank you for your reply Maxx, it means alot.

I won't propagate any further discussion here, because its not my job, nor will, to come making a mess of other peoples communities.

The PC community has nothing against this 'Asetianism', whatever it is. The only reason a few peopleare guarded is because James came representing himself as such. A few Asetianites(?) in the group put that correct, that they have no idea who he is and that he doesn't represent them.

Peace, and i'm glad you fought the work useful.

Sypheara
Beginner
Beginner

Number of posts : 7
Location : United Kingdom
Registration date : 2020-09-20

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Maxx on 20.09.20 12:52

thanks again. you are welcome anytime.
Maxx
Maxx
Master
Master

Number of posts : 4303
Age : 105
Location : USA
Registration date : 2008-06-30

Back to top Go down

Primal Craft personality cult and fake power - Page 2 Empty Re: Primal Craft personality cult and fake power

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 7 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum