One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

5 posters

Go down

One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.  Empty One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

Post by Tehom 15.11.23 4:41

Truth. Truth exists within us as the most sincere, honest, actual and simply coy to all our games, gift of magick. Truth is what allows you to know... all of this, this entire tradition, this entire life, every beautiful thing you have ever and will ever seen in all the lifetimes. Truth is simply so beautiful it takes me real bravery to talk about and even makes me teary-eyed to reflect on. The gateway to all realities, the Fool and the Magician, the Hierophant, the most authentic and incredible act of magick ever conceived in all of history. And it's right there inside of you.

Throughout our lives we're told by so many Masters who've reached heights we really may only dream of, some of us, and that's true, that the one thing they've learned they wish to pass on to the entire world is that the Truth exists within you. All Power exists within you.

The mind can deceive us when we hear this so it's hard to understand just how remarkable this is, how humble even of a statement this truly is, and what it reflects in their lifetimes of work-- to truly see that they've done it, they've achieved what they set out to do is effortlessly beautiful and the most worldly evident sign of real initiation we'll ever need. Right there in all of our faces from the time we're young and know very little at all to the time we're old and, hopefully, still know very little at all.

This world... it's incredibly deceptive but only when you view it through the lens of that mind of yours. The most important and necessary thing, that really does require true bravery and sets us on the very long path of learning, is to look within and see what Truth says. What our Hearts say. Because everything outside of that is conjecture, to ourselves.

Truth is a blessing and act of Love. The very fact you can connect to it is a result of that eternal beauty, that magick we all talk about and wield-- there it is in plain view. A Divine design, coursing through you. And divinity is indefinable Love...

So no matter what you do, or where you are, or what you believe in, what banner you proudly walk under or what heights you've achieved, whether you're out there somewhere far beyond our reach or next door to me right now, please remember, to follow your Heart. Follow Truth that you were born here with. Revealing always, Loyally, Lovingly, Authentically, Who you really are. That it has the Power to do this, reflect on it --- that it is everything you'll ever need, respect it. Nurture it. That is the secret to truly rising as an indomitable force, that is the most Powerful example of what you could be, that is True alchemy, and it's already right there. It's You. Not in any book, not in any temple, not in any anything-- You. And only then do you find the teachings of it in everything else, truly. Only then can you truly Reflect without need for judgment of how true you are. And so you will Truly Exist in this world.

Love to those Loyally under Her Violet Banner. Em Hotep.
Tehom
Tehom
Insider
Insider

Number of posts : 238
Location :
Registration date : 2014-07-13

Back to top Go down

One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.  Empty Re: One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

Post by Morell 18.11.23 13:01

I personally think that truth is not a gift, but an ideal. You seek it, you have some basic understanding where to go towards it, but you never reach it. It always moves further. As you move towards it, you always uncover new and new things, sometimes altering your understanding by 180 degrees, or upside down.

If you reached the final and ultimate truth, you would achieve perfection, but perfection doesn't change and what doesn't change, is not alive.
The truth is ideal worth pursuing, that's for sure. In it's ultimate form I don't think it is within us. I like to rather think that we have within ourselves the tree of knowledge or tree of truth and the more we care for it, the more it grows. We cannot share the tree, only it's seeds, which other have to plant in their own mental gardens...
Morell
Morell
Outsider
Outsider

Number of posts : 69
Location : Europe
Registration date : 2022-11-30

Back to top Go down

One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.  Empty Re: One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

Post by Tehom 18.11.23 14:26

[quote="Morell"]I personally think that truth is not a gift, but an ideal. You seek it, you have some basic understanding where to go towards it, but you never reach it. It always moves further. As you move towards it, you always uncover new and new things, sometimes altering your understanding by 180 degrees, or upside down.[/quote]

I don't agree. To me you have a very linear perception of truth, as truth when we're within it and in alignment with it produces the effects you describe. I am talking about being in direct alignment with who you truly Are which is only possible if you embrace truth, and [b]real[/b] truth-- not the image. Like time, you must think of it non-linearly and more whole. Expand your view. "The Ultimate Truth" you describe is closer to the wholeness of knowledge in Divinity / "Kether" transmutably in your example, we are closer to when not bound here to a physical shell. In this context Truth is the gift bestowed upon us and inherent to our soul, magickally it is the secret to all true spiritual Power and not the pretend kind. With deeper study of Asetianism you realize that all is Magick owing to a magickal formula in the grand design and nothing is just "over there" or separate to you. All facets of the Tree are you. This is all evident in practice, life and any form of communion with your Higher Power. Truth has undeniable alchemical properties for not just the one embracing it but also all of those they touch, literally transforming reality around them. If when looking within you are only ever moving farther and farther away from truth then likely that is an illusion of your mind in one literal sense or a misunderstanding other for truth is Kabbalistically what actually guides one in the Tree at all being the reason we ascend from Malkuth to begin with. It is required to face any challenges above or far below...

[quote]I like to rather think that we have within ourselves the tree of knowledge or tree of truth and the more we care for it, the more it grows. We cannot share the tree, only it's seeds, which other have to plant in their own mental gardens...[/quote]

This is quite true from my own years of studies and in Spirit corroborated by varying Asetianists.
Tehom
Tehom
Insider
Insider

Number of posts : 238
Location :
Registration date : 2014-07-13

Back to top Go down

One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.  Empty Re: One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

Post by Tehom 18.11.23 14:28

All in All Temet Nosce.
Tehom
Tehom
Insider
Insider

Number of posts : 238
Location :
Registration date : 2014-07-13

Back to top Go down

One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.  Empty Re: One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

Post by Morell 19.11.23 2:12

Good points, thank you.
Morell
Morell
Outsider
Outsider

Number of posts : 69
Location : Europe
Registration date : 2022-11-30

Back to top Go down

One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.  Empty Re: One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

Post by Viktor 19.12.23 9:33

Tehom wrote:It's You. Not in any book, not in any temple, not in any anything-- You. And only then do you find the teachings of it in everything else, truly. Only then can you truly Reflect without need for judgment of how true you are. And so you will Truly Exist in this world.
Sorry but this is logically incorrect.

The truth you whish speak of is also known as "universal truth", however you're concluding it with relativism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universality_(philosophy)

Logical consistency is that there can be only one truth, there can't be multiple truths.
However if truth is within us then there are as many truths as there are people therefore not truth.

Viktor
Viktor
Beginner
Beginner

Number of posts : 23
Location : EU
Registration date : 2022-11-09

Back to top Go down

One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.  Empty Re: One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

Post by Tehom 19.12.23 9:51

"Viktor": "However if truth is within us then there are as many truths as there are people therefore not truth."


This made me laugh. Thanks.
Tehom
Tehom
Insider
Insider

Number of posts : 238
Location :
Registration date : 2014-07-13

Back to top Go down

One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.  Empty Re: One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

Post by Viktor 19.12.23 9:58

Tehom wrote:"Viktor": "However if truth is within us then there are as many truths as there are people therefore not truth."


This made me laugh. Thanks.
Why?

My point is that 100 people will have their own view of truth, out of those 100 logically only one can be right and 99 must be wrong.
But you proclaim that all 100 of them must be correct.
This is relativism.
Viktor
Viktor
Beginner
Beginner

Number of posts : 23
Location : EU
Registration date : 2022-11-09

Back to top Go down

One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.  Empty Re: One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

Post by Guano 31.12.23 8:00

You're approaching this from a perspective that assumes consitent perception. At the end of the day, Viktor, we may all experience reality in fundamentally different ways, therfore interpreting these experiences vastly differently from others. Each of these experiences is truth, they are not misinterpreting reality as they see it, the only method by which your logic is true is in some godhead scenario. We'd need one person or entity to have an objectively true experience before we can go around calling things untrue. Logic is your points undoing as much as it is your foundation. At the end of the day, nobody can look inside your head and, for a fact, know what you see. My blue is your orange and so on.
Guano
Guano
Insider
Insider

Number of posts : 108
Age : 81
Location : My desk.
Registration date : 2018-11-10

Back to top Go down

One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.  Empty Re: One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

Post by Viktor 07.01.24 6:08

Guano wrote:You're approaching this from a perspective that assumes consitent perception. At the end of the day, Viktor, we may all experience reality in fundamentally different ways, therfore interpreting these experiences vastly differently from others. Each of these experiences is truth, they are not misinterpreting reality as they see it, the only method by which your logic is true is in some godhead scenario. We'd need one person or entity to have an objectively true experience before we can go around calling things untrue. Logic is your points undoing as much as it is your foundation. At the end of the day, nobody can look inside your head and, for a fact, know what you see. My blue is your orange and so on.

Universal truth btw. is not limited to religion, there is universal truth in science as well aka. Theory of everything, religions just happen to proclaim their truth as absolute and everything else as false or influenced by evil.

No my logic is certainly not based on any godhead scenario but rather on philosophical view of truth.

Example:
P1. The universe exists, and that is objective truth
Conclusion, there can be only one truth to how the universe come to be.

100 different people might have their own views on how the universe come to be, but objectively either none of them or maximum 1 can be right because otherwise there is contradiction.

Yes their experiences are true, but experiences are just experiences not universal truth.
Viktor
Viktor
Beginner
Beginner

Number of posts : 23
Location : EU
Registration date : 2022-11-09

Back to top Go down

One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.  Empty Re: One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

Post by AlifBalaamYashin 07.01.24 7:53

If I may extrapolate on Viktor's reply . . .

"The imagination is not a State: it is the Human existence itself. Everything that is possible to be believed is an image of the truth"
_____________
(William Blake)


Reality is essentially our subjective perception of what we consider to be real. There isn't an inherent, independent reality that exists beyond our perceptions. Understanding reality is contingent upon the mediation of our consciousness, making it a subjective experience. While we can directly experience our own consciousness, gaining direct access to someone else's consciousness is beyond our reach. Instead, we infer their consciousness through their observable behaviors.

The genesis of conceptual thought lies in the unembellished recognition of one's conscious self as an existential reality, a concept echoed in ancient Egypt's ba, the Greek psyche, and the Taoist Golden Flower.

Plato constructed a dualistic perspective on reality, delineating the World of Becoming and the World of Being. The World of Becoming represents the tangible, ever-shifting physical realm perceived through our senses—a dynamic and constantly changing world. On the other hand, the World of Being comprises the realm of forms or ideas, encompassing the Platonic First Forms and the Egyptian Neteru. This realm is absolute, independent, and transcendent, remaining immutable despite its influence on the fundamental nature of the entities we observe in the World of Becoming.

Individual perceptions of reality vary, emphasizing that what we perceive is not solely determined by our naked eyes. For instance, when standing before a tree, you and I might perceive different aspects. The elusive nature of reality becomes apparent, as we remain uncertain about what is truly real—our conscious and unconscious minds construct a version of reality for us. Neuroscientist Anil Seth succinctly characterizes this phenomenon, describing reality as a controlled hallucination. Our minds assimilate external information within the framework of our internal knowledge, crafting a coherent picture of what we perceive as reality.
_________________________
كتاب العواء في ليلة الصحراء
Kitab Eawa' fi Laylat Alsahra'
The Book of Howling in the Desert Night
by 'Amir Alzzalam

AlifBalaamYashin
AlifBalaamYashin
Insider
Insider

Number of posts : 157
Location : Earth
Registration date : 2023-07-09

Back to top Go down

One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.  Empty Re: One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

Post by Viktor 07.01.24 12:41

@AlifBalaamYashin
I get what you're saying and I agree with you, I think I also understand better what Guano was saying.

But I would not mix human perceptions of reality about what's truth with actual (objective but unknown) truth.

Truth about existence of everything (us, the universe etc.) must exist because otherwise nothing would be present or exist.
We exist, universe exists therefore truth about it's origins must also exist, and what ever that is is must be unique, hence the name "universal" truth.

We don't know the truth for sure, have no evidence but it does exist and it must be unique (ex. one possible explanation only) and as such shouldn't be subject to perception of individuals.
Viktor
Viktor
Beginner
Beginner

Number of posts : 23
Location : EU
Registration date : 2022-11-09

Back to top Go down

One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.  Empty Re: One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

Post by AlifBalaamYashin 07.01.24 13:50

Viktor wrote:@AlifBalaamYashin
I get what you're saying and I agree with you, I think I also understand better what Guano was saying.

But I would not mix human perceptions of reality about what's truth with actual (objective but unknown) truth.

Truth about existence of everything (us, the universe etc.) must exist because otherwise nothing would be present or exist.
We exist, universe exists therefore truth about it's origins must also exist, and what ever that is is must be unique, hence the name "universal" truth.

We don't know the truth for sure, have no evidence but it does exist and it must be unique (ex. one possible explanation only) and as such shouldn't be subject to perception of individuals.
While your point has validity, consider another perspective.

The quantum double-slit experiment serves as a compelling illustration of the interconnectedness between individual consciousness and the objective universe. One possible insight derived from this phenomenon is the idea that "the observer shapes their own reality."

The act of observation influences the behavior of particles. The observer's consciousness seems to play a role in determining whether the particles behave as waves or particles. This observation-dependent nature of quantum systems challenges classical notions of an objective reality existing independently of an observer.

From a philosophical perspective, this has given rise to the notion that the observer actively participates in the creation of their reality. The act of observation, according to this interpretation, collapses the wave function, determining the outcome of the experiment. This has sparked discussions about the profound interconnection between consciousness and the physical world, suggesting that reality is not merely an external, objective entity but is intricately linked to the act of observation and the conscious mind.

AlifBalaamYashin
AlifBalaamYashin
Insider
Insider

Number of posts : 157
Location : Earth
Registration date : 2023-07-09

Back to top Go down

One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.  Empty Re: One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

Post by Viktor 07.01.24 14:31

AlifBalaamYashin wrote:
While your point has validity, consider another perspective.

The quantum double-slit experiment serves as a compelling illustration of the interconnectedness between individual consciousness and the objective universe. One possible insight derived from this phenomenon is the idea that "the observer shapes their own reality."

The act of observation influences the behavior of particles. The observer's consciousness seems to play a role in determining whether the particles behave as waves or particles. This observation-dependent nature of quantum systems challenges classical notions of an objective reality existing independently of an observer.

From a philosophical perspective, this has given rise to the notion that the observer actively participates in the creation of their reality. The act of observation, according to this interpretation, collapses the wave function, determining the outcome of the experiment. This has sparked discussions about the profound interconnection between consciousness and the physical world, suggesting that reality is not merely an external, objective entity but is intricately linked to the act of observation and the conscious mind.


I recall watching YT video about this experiment, interesting stuff!

It's difficult to imagine how the world outside quantum world (the one we see) could function as deceptive as quantum world.
It's like knowing what ever we see is not entirely true.

If we're creating our own reality then IMO everything becomes more difficult.
Viktor
Viktor
Beginner
Beginner

Number of posts : 23
Location : EU
Registration date : 2022-11-09

Back to top Go down

One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.  Empty Re: One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

Post by AlifBalaamYashin 07.01.24 15:10

Viktor wrote:

If we're creating our own reality then IMO everything becomes more difficult.[/quote] It can . . . however, the Maji delicately balances both Subjective and Objective Universes to his/her needs.
AlifBalaamYashin
AlifBalaamYashin
Insider
Insider

Number of posts : 157
Location : Earth
Registration date : 2023-07-09

Back to top Go down

One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.  Empty Re: One of the true gifts bestowed upon us all.

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum