Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Akura wrote:It appears that I have yet again not explained my ideas in an adequate way. The first post on this thread was about the problems in religion, the second part of that post also spoke of Asetianism as a religion.

Religion is what happens when a group of people take a philosophy and worship it, they make it a static set of rules for their life, and the believe it absolutely. If you open your eyes to this forum most of the people are making Asetianism into a religion. Religion is the cause of all of the problems, not the philosophy behind it (sometimes it is though); when people think that a philosophy is the best to live by they miss all of the others. Not only that but they take this philosophy so far as to kill/die for it, they also become hateful and ignorant of other philosophies.

I love Asetianism, but not as a religion, and the author of the Asetian Bible never intended it to be a religion, but in fact a mix of occult knowledge with an underlying philosophy.

Concluding, the first post asserts that religion has created a lot of problems, the second half is interesting because it says that the individual will is greater than a group will. The problem I see is that this forum treats Asetianism as a religion and not a philosophy, maybe it's just the way you guys word your posts.

Akura, I understand what you mean. The reason I disagree is mostly due to having a different definition for religion. I don't agree that religion is the cause of all problems or the blind following of set dogma. That is true in some of the largest religions as Christianity and Islam, but does not define religion. There is religion that is harmless and even positive, like Buddhism and Wicca, even though I don't agree with their beliefs. One is very old (Buddhism) and the other is very modern (Wicca), just working here as examples.

I'm not saying that Asetianism is a religion, just that I don't find religion to be something bad in every case. It's often people following religion that make it feel wrong, blind and ignorant. We can't generalize all religions based on examples such as Christianity and Islam. Actually, as occultists, we should avoid generalization.

In my opinion, and I speak only for myself in here, any organized set of spiritual philosophy can be treated to some extent as religion. Religion does not imply blindness or ignorance. It can be simply a structured philosophy with a spiritual component, which most of you would most likely call a "way of life". In those terms, there is nothing negative or ignorant about religion.

Religion, spiritual path, occult tradition... these terms are all connected. Lets not let ourselves be blinded just because the most well known religions are driven with blindness and ignorance. We can follow a religion and yet not be sheep, if that comes out from our deepest study and strongest Will.

Daniel09 said: "We must approach every detail with a hint of skepticism and try to find out if other sources contradict it. Otherwise, we would be blind followers, not Asetianists".


Well Daniel, you just see this Book in a scientific way. A graduate of concepts, paradigms, hypothetical, historical and theoretical elements. It is your opinion, and a respectable one, indeed.
But I disagree with you whe you say: "Otherwise, we would be blind followers, not Asetianists". The moment you love what you live, by directing your life to It, , struggling, striving, giving yourself and is serving the purpose for which you live, this is Love . Unconditional Love. And Love is not blind when It knows a treat with respect all other feelings, diferences, all other beings. True Asetianists are not "blind" as you speak. Are critical of the Nature, but also admirers and are lovers of It. The Heart and Soul of an Asetianist is closed to the Path he/she follows, but open to the breezes of the wisdom that Nature provides. We have many questions, but certainly one certainty that prevails: to honor, glorify, serve and love The Mighty Queen Aset and all Her Violet House.

Akura said: "The problem I see is That Asetianism treats this forum as a religion and not a philosophy, maybe it's just the way you word your post guys."


Asetianism is much more than a religion, Akura. It's more than a philosophy, or lifestyle, or whatever you want to say. For Asetianism is a Path of Wisdom traced by the Gods Themselves... where human words do not serve to encompass the full scope over this Sacred Way.
We do not treat here as a religion, as you said. We talked, discussed, debated, we seek to share questions, concepts. And this does not apply to what is a religion. We learned from the relevant topics that exist here, even the simples and subtles ones
But if you say we're doing Asetianism as an image of a religion, then i say: for me yes is a religion, is yes a lifestyle, is yes a philosophy, It is My Path. Path that many may take the name they want, but only Those who seek to understand and love It know that simple words are nothing like enough to define what Asetianism really is.

Now i bring what Stalker spoke, appropriately, simple and pure: "In Fact, inspiring words are true. Asetian Bible have the power to awake our inner feelings, our manifestation of Acts are just a small part of our sentiments".

So, what I garner from your post is that if I love something the right way, then it has to be true? I don't follow that kind of thinking.

I have seen followers of every religion use the same tactic. If you "truly" love God, if you "truly" love Jesus, if you "truly" love the universe, the gods, the word. It is all smoke and mirrors. What you feel is not what you know.

Intuition can only take you to the door. It doesn't open it for you.

Its your point of view, Daniel. And those are ours. This is what make here a Forum. We do not impose anything on anybody. Only expose.

Hioman wrote:Its your point of view, Daniel. And those are ours. This is what make here a Forum. We do not impose anything on anybody. Only expose.

Understood. I should hope we do not outright ostracize users who have questions and opinions then. Jumping to conclusions and making assumptions is the easiest way to become ignorant to the world around you.

I do not think so. Create, "jumping to conclusions", is a natural way to traverse the mind after analyzing certain assertive. Denie such reasoning is to deny the self, when you think, doubt, form your own opinion. We take conclusions from everything. You must have already created your own after being typing here. Now, precipitated conclusions, unthinking conclusions, without any foundation, I repudiate these.

* Correcting: "...is a natural way that the mind traverses after..."

I agree with both Daniel and Akura. I feel as though folks on this forum, and in this community, are ostracized if they voice a different opinion or question (respectfully) the opinion of another. For that reason I have not posted sooner.

First of all, I honestly didn't understand the point of Stalkers post, but if we are going to speak about 'humans' and their religions, then let's. I don't agree with christianity or Islam, or many 'religions' out there, but it isn't because I think their followers are blind sheep, although some may be, I have met some pretty open minded christians (my mother included), I just don't like being told what to do

But I do agree that many followers of certain religions do have a rather 'sheeplike' mentality. Unfortunately for me, and others, I see that mentality here.

I was under the impression that Asetianism was for those who sought after knowledge with a great thirst. But I have not seen that here. What I have seen is quite the opposite. People take things for their face value, don't question, and if someone who is supposedly more 'knowledgeable' about Asetian culture in the community speaks about a topic that is not so well known, it is taken as truth, without question, I don't see how that is productive. How do we know this person can be trusted? Has an Asetian explicitly told you that this person can be trusted and the information they are giving you is valid?

I also don't agree with Jonathan, there are various other paths that do not seek to find followers, you mentioned one of them: Buddhism.

Something I see here is a lot of hypocrisy. A lot of Asetianists say that aren't like the many humans out there who think their religion is the only one. But many Asetianists act that way. They bash other religions and even talk negatively about things that they may have never explored. I am not trying to bash anyone myself, but I think people should open their minds and focus less on hating 'humans' and more on themselves and how their behavior reflects that which is within them.

If I have offended anyone, forgive me, but I had to speak my mind. I feel an occultists should speak their mind freely, should question EVERYTHING, and should be open minded. If that is stifled, then you are as bad as the sheep you hate so much, for it is that same sentiment of I AM RIGHT and YOU ARE NOT that unites you.

Nebibi's post was brave and honest. It deserves more than silence. It deserves some thinking.

I hope we can all take into consideration that while the unity in the Asetian community comes from a deep and mutual - and nearly magickal - sense of devotion to the Asetian path, it is indeed a path of Freedom and as such we should try to be as open eyed as possible. Everyone has their own way of seeking Truth. Faith is often an elusive mask and it must, indeed, be tested.

It is, after all, mentioned in the remark on the Aset Ka webpage:

We seek no followers out of blind faith. We are a metaphysical family. One connected by a common interest and an unshakable bond, an immortal one... the eternal gift of Aset.

Thank you Syrianeh, I appreciate your response, which was also bold.

I agree entirely with your post. I will boldly say that I am no longer an Asetianist, but no matter what path, anyone is on they should always question and keep an open mind. I think you are a very open minded person and that is a great trait in the occult realm

No problem, Nebibi. Honesty is always the first step towards evolution.

Please allow me to make a comment toward the flavor of Nibibi's post.

In many ways I agree with what was written......And only my own feelings and not from reflecting on what is felt by the Asetian leaning individuals here on the site. As you will see, I believe that both sides have their own purpose.

I agree that any statement should be proven by one, for themselves, rather than just blindly taking it for granted. But those ideas and concepts that seem to feel and line up with common sense seem to last longer than those that do not reflect the walk of common sense.

I believe that each of us is at the place in life that we should be....we are all right on time and not there early or late in our lives. Our beliefs reflect our total experience we have come in contact with....I believe we all lined this up by our own choice before we came into this experience. Meaning we have selected our own path and those things we are confronted with in order to advance spiritually. So beiliving anything will affect our walk, and it may be that we are supposed to believe that which we do......so others that see that person as not lining up with their own individual walk should not degrade them because it appears it will come to a different outcome. All this may be for a purpose already constructed.

Personally, I found for myself this in doing an exercise in my training.......I immediately was taken to a dry desert place in my vision.......as I flew through the air slightly above the sands, in the distance I could see a very long line of people standing there.......As I got closer I could see that each one was tied to the one behind them with a rope around the neck and then tied to the one behind....and so forth. Each with the rope connecting around the neck whereby everyone was connected to each other. .......very strange I thought.....who are these people? But it shows me we are all bothers and sisters as we are all connected.

As I got closer, I saw that I recognized every one of them.....They were all the people I had seen and met in my life so far....even my relatives......they were the souls of these that in my walk this time through this dimension, I had come in contact with in any way. Some of these souls were dead already and moved on...and some were still alive. Even some of these souls I did not even know their name....but I had had thoughts about them as I viewed them in person even as I may have walked by them on the street....

I suddenly knew why I was seeing the souls of these people......I needed to ask forgiveness of all them for things I had done to them or spoken about them or even thought about them in any fashion that would not help them advance in their spiritual walk. I had to look each one in the eyes as I passed by them and asked for their forgiveness to cleanse my own soul.....I began to feel the tears roll from my eyes as I experienced this process and saw how evil I had been to others....It showed me also how my feelings toward others would be a sort of hinderance to them in their own advancement. Feelings were paramount as I went down the line.....Believe me when I tell you...this was a very long line....it included my entire lifetime until this point....but I felt the darkness fall away from me and I KNEW this process was correct.

No one showed me this....as it appeared to me as I was doing meditation exercises. This was real to me.....I have never seen it written in any other place. No one ever told me I had to do this. BUT I KNOW THIS WAS CORRECT IN MY LIFE AS IT CHANGED MY LIFE COMPLETELY. I personally believe it was right for me to do. So I do believe that we are all at the point and place in our life that each needs to be to enable him/her to face their own spiritual advancement.....and I condemn no one for what he/she believes as any and all things may be believed to help that individual soul walk advance.

Please all forgive me for my long posts......

Maxx

need to add one addition thing.......I do not advocate or say this process is for anyone else or that it needs to be done by anyone other than myself. It related to my individual walk at the time.....and I do not say you need do it. I posted it for example to show that comdemnation in any fashion could only hurt ourselves as well as shortchanging others......as we are all connected.

Maxx

Excellent Stalker, of course, you are correct. Someone else may not agree but that makes no difference to that other person...as they will see it differently than you do......and by the way, I am not being critical of this group at all, I hope you are not viewing it that way.......

Let me show an illustration from different views......you mention the honor of the warrior....which is very important...and you are correct.

But when battle or war is mentioned it brings a different picture to my mind and it may even be a different picture than the one you have in your mind that you would like for me to see. I do not think of battlefield weapons of planes, tanks, swords, bullets, etc. I know of how the real battle takes place and I see that in my mind. I know that today physical troops and armies are outdated. Today's weapons are the Asetian methods whether from Aset Ka or the Red Order of Set. Psychic assassination is done when one is determined that they can no longer be allowed to be the problem. They may have a heart attack, or develop cancer (such as the ruler of a Central or South American country which you may read about in the news), or an accident that takes a life. Or maybe a thought from the persons brother or wife to shoot them to death as anger has come up in the mind against them. One may consider the warfare done with the spiritual realm when working with spirits whether angelic or demonic.
I feel todays wars are all done behind the scenes where actual human elements fight each other while the real rulers watch from behind the scenes.

In my earlier post in another chapter here, I quoted from the Asetian Bible using the word MAGICK as it was written there. Today warfare is much different...and I am referring to Real, behind the scenes warfare. But the word honor does carry great weight in the soul and the personality of the proud warrior, I agree. It as a very positive attribute that the person works to develop...and needs to.

An actual wording to belittle another as I was meaning to address here, is really viewed as an picture showing that person has more time in the spiritual walk to develop to a point where harsh words are not in the vocabulary of the warrior. And I am meaning the warrior of merit. It only shows they do not see the entire picture. No need to crash a forum in anger flames......for one can just leave and not come back.....that appears to allow honor to make its appearance on both sides. And my thoughts are that both may have a manner of correctness in each side....The universe is made of both elements, by necessity.

By the way, today, if one has the DNA of a person, that DNA can be input into a computer and sent to a satelite rotating the earth. When the satelite rotates overhead and the person steps out on the porch or leaves a building.......the satelite can zero in on them and co ordinate the DNA reading and laser beam them in a second and they no longer walk this earth. Any question why everyone's DNA is becoming so important to have in the medical records. War is changing big time.

Anyway, I know you are very sincere and you are correct. I love your thought process.

Maxx

But really, would anyone other than a comedian come into your home and spend a little time there having a meal with you and your family and telling you how good the food is, how great your home looks and they love your choice of decorations.......then change in their method of speaking with you...and say that how ugly your wife is, how ugly your children are and that they lack manners and are very rude, that they were only kidding when they spoke how lovely your home was.....and that they have now decided they did not like the conversation ......oh...and by the way, they do not think they want to be a part of your lifestyle or friendly with your ideas..and they think it is time to go........to insult you to your face.....
naaaaaw....that really has no meaning at all....as the person appears to really be a comedian or one that has not fully developed along their life walk yet......so only pity their lack of dealing with the human race.......peacefully....

LOL Nice one Maxx. You made a good point.

I say I agree with Maxx and Stalker, both added good contributions to this thread.

Maxx, thank you for sharing with us your personal experiences and how that helped you grow in your path. It's very interesting to read about the many paths of life and how the process of growth is always unique to each of us, but in the end we walk the same road.

Stalker, if someone had such attitude with you, simply don't give them any thought. They surely aren't worthy of your time. Like Maxx said, peacefully let them be. Keep in mind that the kind of reaction you are describing to have experienced with others is often found associated with a very negative kind of feeling called jealousy. Maybe you reached some form of spiritual accomplishment they tried but couldn't? Or somehow they see you as superior to them at some level? Not saying anyone is superior to someone else, just that's how some people perceive others and sometimes causes that sort of negative reactions. Best advice I can give you from my personal experiences dealing with negativity is to simply ignore it and continue dedicating yourself to learning, growing as a spiritual being and being a better version of yourself. That alone will teach them a lesson, trust me. It's only a matter of time, and time is always on the side of those in the Asetian path...

I must give merit to Stalker in recognizing his nature....He believes....and believes in that subject stongly......it is his nature...honor is a mainstain in Spain, Portugal, Greece, etc......when one is insulted they have a heating up from the metabolism at a higher pace....and things have greater meaning, things are more colorful, things are more lively, things are more beautiful......they believe more profoundly, and things seem to have a stronger emotional element to life......these things mean that person has a deeper connection to real life. I salute those attributes and I know how meaniingful they are. Stalker is to be commended in regard to the stand he quoted about himself.

Myself......I was born in the US with Scottish, English and Irish blood....and as I age and get older than dirt, I find I settle down to watch more,than take part in those things that I previously thought so important, and let others touch the issue more closely.

Maxx: I loved your example. Very well explained and humorous and thank you of your words.

Jonathan: Thank you of your advices. Very helpful. I follow your advice.

Kim Jong iL of N. Korea is dead today....they waited 3 days to list it in the news.. I remembered the post I had made earlier regarding psychic assassination. Looking at all the change of world leaders on a world wide basis, I just wonder if there was a connection... Who knows.

Maxx

Jonathan wrote:It's only a matter of time, and time is always on the side of those in the Asetian path...

This says a lot.

Someone knowledgable on the magick of the Asetians should never be underestimated, no matter how innocent or weak he may appear to be on the surface...

'Natalia'

This is a great thread about the term "religion", at least for the most part it is. I find it always a bit funny when the confusion of philosophy and religion get different meanings. A person's religion is their philosophy as well as a person's philosophy becomes their religion. For the most part, this seems to run true. I say that due to the fact that they intertwine so heavily that they seem impossible to separate.

This is where education as well as a healthy mature mindset comes in to allow for differences to exist. Not many are capable of such at feat. I am amazed by how well this group is....Delightfully amazed mind you. There is NO lip service offered with that. LOL!

I did laugh at this thread, at least the first part of it. I am certainly glad I was not present when this was in full swing. I do not think my comments would have been cool. I love my life. I worship my life. So therefore my life becomes my religion. That is what I would have stated. Seems to me, I just stated it here.

Nature is a beautiful living creature. Best way I know how to describe it. I can take it from the standpoint of understanding its workings. But can I actually create it....make it live....make it grow....keep it alive. That is what I find amazing. I can not do any of those things. I need nature to provide me with a seed if I were going to even start.

There is nothing that will not speak to you if you truly listen to it. Learn it's language even. I personally do not need to pay attention to the weatherman due to the fact that the moon gives me a 3 day forecast. When weathermen have been wrong....the moon, she has always been right.

I hope I have not just taken two different threads and posted on both of them here. I just finished reading some of the other older threads. If I have, I give you my sincere apologies now.

witchmark wrote:
I did laugh at this thread, at least the first part of it. I am certainly glad I was not present when this was in full swing. I do not think my comments would have been cool. I love my life. I worship my life. So therefore my life becomes my religion. That is what I would have stated. Seems to me, I just stated it here.

Nature is a beautiful living creature. Best way I know how to describe it. I can take it from the standpoint of understanding its workings. But can I actually create it....make it live....make it grow....keep it alive. That is what I find amazing. I can not do any of those things. I need nature to provide me with a seed if I were going to even start.

This is you. Just be you and the law will be your student. Make sure that no dogma will destroy all in what you believe. Because ... the world is an expert to do it.