The Occultist, The Mystic or The Magician?

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Post by MysticLightShinethForth 11.11.23 8:38

“There are two Paths to the Innermost: the Way of the Mystic, which is the way of devotion and meditation, a solitary and subjective path; and the way of the occultist, which is the way of the intellect, of concentration, and of trained will; upon this path the co-operation of fellow workers is required, firstly for the exchange of knowledge, and secondly because ritual magic plays an important part in this work, and for this the assistance of several is needed in most of the greater operations. The mystic derives his knowledge through the direct communion of his higher self with the Higher Powers; to him the wisdom of the occultist is foolishness, for his mind does not work in that way; but, on the other hand, to a more intellectual and extrovert type, the method of the mystic is impossible until long training has enabled him to transcend the planes of form. We must therefore recognize these two distinct types among those who seek the Way of Initiation, and remember that there is a path for each.”
― Dion Fortune, Esoteric Orders and Their Work and The Training and Work of the Initiate

In my view, the occultist is the student of occult mysteries. He's necessarily a mystic or a magician. Something must have prompted him to pursue such occult road, whether it was the engagement with magic or the happening of a mystical experience that opened his eyes to such reality. His study isn't merely theoretical, in the sense that everything can be understood by intellect alone, as it needs translation into experience, one way or another. His intellect must be illuminated by spirit, his clarity must be enlightened by experience, for without it he'll fall into mere trappings of little value and thusly progress nowhere so far in reality apart from on the lower level in which he resides trapped within confinements of a Sarcophagus of Flesh (and so Matter).

It is, however, not only the degree of spiritual awakening the plays a central role to his conscious awareness of the mysteries, as there are many spiritual aspirants that don't call themselves occultists but nonetheless pursue a spiritual road, even if backed by certain principles of occult foundations, like if we'd say the chanting of mantras along the vein of the Hindu or Yogic traditions basing itself upon such elaborate system of spiritual (read occult) science in their goals and spiritual endeavors.

Now, the mystic is one who seeks the experience within himself. Not in his inner realm alone as we might say he seeks indeed the Higher Self beyond the delusions of the mind-created inner happenings of no particular consequence but deceiving and blinding illusion. He's, in some way, the epitome of the quest of spirituality, because his focus is turned purely toward it, but he's not necessarily versed in the magical arts. His occult education may stand upon a foundation of inward realization and a strong spirit, but it doesn't necessarily entail magic, though it might and he's certainly aware of energies but use them in a different way. The difference lies in his approach, goal and focus. Now, this is not the ideal, for an occultist that aspires to understand the mysteries of the magical arts and how to utilize such occult technology, also, for various higher aims and purposes, as his occult technical foundation might be quite limited. He's not so properly well versed with magical technique, by necessity.

And, the magician, is one who naturally practices these sacred arts; the magical arts. Though he himself, should take certain recourse in the way of the mystic, for then he will be completed upon the inner altar of realized Self, truly lived spirituality, and not merely the enmeshment with the work of outer energies. But, that does in itself require a stable inner foundation, psychologically, spiritually, mentally, to be used in such work. It's operable as an anchor of sorts, to re-center awareness upon a stable core, very useful especially in times when the energies might get too strong, chaotic and wild. Such might lead the unprepared into madness but it's precisely that strength of spirit which may prevent it, upon the honorable foundation of a Self-aware and pure inner Being.

Just some own thoughts. My definition of magician was more closely like the occultist by Dion Fortune above but I hold both the mystic and magician are two types of occultists, in different ways.
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Post by AlifBalaamYashin 11.11.23 9:10

As the ignorant masses flock together in their mindless conformity, the Sahir, the master of occult arts, evolves, crafting and fortifying their sovereign Will, stretching it into the fabric of objective reality. No longer bound by the primal instincts of the reptilian brain, the Sahir transcends base emotions such as shame, fear, and the desire for social acceptance.

In the realm of ancient wisdom, there exists a philosophy known as the Perennial Philosophy, an intricate tapestry woven through the fabric of all Right Hand Path (RHP) religions. It asserts that the pinnacle of human attainment lies in the union with a Supreme Being or the transcendent energy of the objective universe. To attain such lofty heights, the RHP followers
embark upon a path of White Magick, a craft that the Western Left Hand Paths (WLHP) perceive as a clever art of deceiving one's conscious awareness, fostering a belief in the acceptance by the Supreme Being or the Objective Universe (OU). Yet, those of us who wander deep into the shadows, far to the left, perceive the OU for what it truly is a nonconscious, unintelligent memetic mechanism comprised of Time, Space, and Matter. To dissolve oneself into this vast entity stands as a stark contradiction to the aims of the Left Hand Path (LHP) the pursuit of self-actualization and apotheosis.
___________________________
Kitab Aleawa' Fi Laylat Alsahra'
by 'Amir Alzzalam
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Post by Morell 11.11.23 10:33

Good thoughts, Mystic. Do you think that occultist needs others to be working with him for his path? I'm doubtful about it.
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Post by MysticLightShinethForth 11.11.23 10:58

I'm more doubtful about that specific point, too, Morell. It can work but it's an option, not a necessity. Maybe it's a necessity if you're in a Coven. That's about it. There's such a thing as a solitary road for the occultist, as well, and in fact I believe it's what most would take unless they have initiated privilege into a Coven of some sort.

A Coven, now that's probably quite heavy business, I believe, actually not to underestimate, the type of responsibility you'd have towards your Coven. Energetically/magically, and in other ways such as attendance, ritualistically, oaths, etc. Quite beautiful when I think about it. It's hard work that not all are ready for because it must require certain discipline, competence and a right place of mind or one's place in life in general and a solid foundation of metaphysics. I can imagine things going terribly wrong in a Coven if it isn't ordered, structured and disciplined and it might pose a risk to the Coven, perhaps, if someone magically falls or attracts all the kinds of wrong influences but that's just my guess.

However, the solitary road is probably what it all boils down to, in spite of that, like a wise person told me recently, like the Asetianist journey itself - and I believe I can extrapolate it to a lot of occult principles, or the essence of a mystical path, in general - like the stars in the night sky, alone and distant from each other, so is the journey, that one should focus on oneself, their own magickal practice and spiritual growth to Become; the journey of evolution. Then of course your radiance might shine across to others and your grouping together might form a constellation, but it's ultimately what it is. Don't lose focus of that central star, your own Self, lest you spin out off orbit from your own higher course on that night sky. The compass is and has always been within and so will remain. Smile
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Post by Morell 11.11.23 11:08

Thank you for your answer. I agree with you.
You're right that it is privilege to be in a coven, but only if it is a good coven. Being in bad coven can give one much harm physically, mentally, even magically. I like the thought that despite being in the group, you are the one responsible for your own path and for yourself. In the end none other does that for you, whether you are in coven or not.
And even in good coven you have to fit in. If you already have different path than the coven you want to join, it either doesn't work or demands very deep change within oneself.
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Post by MysticLightShinethForth 11.11.23 11:30

I do think you're right in principle, however I question how if they're real and established Covens they can in any capacity be necessarily bad, as they must build upon tradition and so certain quality of both membership, hierarchy perhaps and how things are done. Maybe there are worser examples, though. I don't have the most insight on Covens, as I only hear about them, but that's again my best bet.
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Post by Jonathan 11.11.23 11:37

Good post, Mystic. Keep it up.

The life of magical pursuit in a Coven is indeed very different from those taking a solitary path. I wouldn’t say that it’s necessarily more valid, since the solitary path is the ideal approach for most seekers, but working with a Coven makes it of a higher caliber when it comes to responsibility as well as its dangers. Progress is exponentially faster due to specialized training and initiation but also potentially more devastating to Self if power is misused or if those oaths and duties are not approached with maturity and an honest commitment. Covens also have much greater influence in the ebbs and flows of the occult society on a larger scale, and given how many tend to be aligned with higher forces such as initiatory Orders of greater power, that makes them forces to be reckoned with that a single individual would not be able to face alone.

There are many interesting dynamics to the developments and movements of Orders and Covens in the traditional occult world but it is a very complex subject.
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Post by Morell 11.11.23 12:12

MysticLightShinethForth wrote:I do think you're right in principle, however I question how if they're real and established Covens they can in any capacity be necessarily bad, as they must build upon tradition and so certain quality of both membership, hierarchy perhaps and how things are done. Maybe there are worser examples, though. I don't have the most insight on Covens, as I only hear about them, but that's again my best bet.
Probably the bad I would call fake ones. Something like dangerous religious sects. Frauds keep appearing and some do not last long, but we see that some dangerous sects last for a long time.
But your point is good too. To survive longer time the coven must be internally working.

Thinking about it I think that teaching one on one, meaning being taught by one solitary teacher teaching one student, feels effective, maybe even more than in coven, where there might be more opinions or at least the same thing is given through multiple lenses not in that much intimate way... but then I'm only assuming on my imagination.
Makes sense that evolving within coven is faster, coven definitely has at least well sorted resources, which itself is saving a lot of time spend by research and the teacher are able to explain as they understand. They have not only information but also knowledge to share.
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Post by MysticLightShinethForth 11.11.23 12:14

Jonathan wrote:Good post, Mystic. Keep it up.

The life of magical pursuit in a Coven is indeed very different from those taking a solitary path. I wouldn’t say that it’s necessarily more valid, since the solitary path is the ideal approach for most seekers, but working with a Coven makes it of a higher caliber when it comes to responsibility as well as its dangers. Progress is exponentially faster due to specialized training and initiation but also potentially more devastating to Self if power is misused or if those oaths and duties are not approached with maturity and an honest commitment. Covens also have much greater influence in the ebbs and flows of the occult society on a larger scale, and given how many tend to be aligned with higher forces such as initiatory Orders of greater power, that makes them forces to be reckoned with that a single individual would not be able to face alone.

There are many interesting dynamics to the developments and movements of Orders and Covens in the traditional occult world but it is a very complex subject.

Thanks, Jonathan.

Much appreciated insight.
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Post by MysticLightShinethForth 11.11.23 12:19

Morell wrote:
MysticLightShinethForth wrote:I do think you're right in principle, however I question how if they're real and established Covens they can in any capacity be necessarily bad, as they must build upon tradition and so certain quality of both membership, hierarchy perhaps and how things are done. Maybe there are worser examples, though. I don't have the most insight on Covens, as I only hear about them, but that's again my best bet.
Probably the bad I would call fake ones. Something like dangerous religious sects. Frauds keep appearing and some do not last long, but we see that some dangerous sects last for a long time.
But your point is good too. To survive longer time the coven must be internally working.

Thinking about it I think that teaching one on one, meaning being taught by one solitary teacher teaching one student, feels effective, maybe even more than in coven, where there might be more opinions or at least the same thing is given through multiple lenses not in that much intimate way... but then I'm only assuming on my imagination.
Makes sense that evolving within coven is faster, coven definitely has at least well sorted resources, which itself is saving a lot of time spend by research and the teacher are able to explain as they understand. They have not only information but also knowledge to share.

Also, yes, they'd likely decay quite fast and not be suitable for the higher work, it's really not a light matter. The forces of the occult world would probably destroy them, in some way. Hence, perhaps also, why certain cults and sects, etc., in modern terms, might be total infestations and run by parasitic egregores or forces, slowly but surely working on the collapse of their integrity and holistic health. Very serious spiritual issue I reckon. Not to speak of how many who've exited cults report of terrible brainwashing they've had to overcome.
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Post by Morell 11.11.23 12:33

Thank you both for your amazing thoughts on the matter.
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Post by AkashaofKemet 17.11.23 10:17

I just wanted to drop in and say I really like the topics that are being covered. You all are doing a great job with teaching and informing us. Thank you.
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