Why do they bow?

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Post by Divine 277 06.04.10 15:24

Yes, you are right... but in some way they worship him as a god .. and frankly isn't that blasphemy???

And another thing, do they see him ass a liberator? a savior?

If so.... why don't he stop it ... if he knows what is going on , is blasphemy .... to aset .... he mite be her child, but he still should know his place in nature ?

Im not trying to piss you off.... Im trying to see how valid I can take this information .... Im NOT in anyway trying to make you mad or be disrespectful.....

But I am and always will be , honest it what i write.

Sincerely Divine277
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Post by Victor 06.04.10 16:38

I never mentioned worshipping. I mentioned my views on respect, alone.

As far as worship, that is a more complex case. I don't believe most people worship him, or that worship would be the right word to use. Most admire him, respect him and many even adore him. As a friend, as an ally, or as a Master. He is no one's savior, I believe you might be confusing some things with Christianity in here. Also, even if there would be some very devout Asetian or Asetianist to the point of worship, it would certainly not be blasphemy, given that as an Asetian, and as an Elder, he is part of Her. So by paying homage to him, they are paying homage to Aset herself. This is even more valid if he is one of the Primordials, which again, is only speculation at this point. But one point is clear, out of everyone, Luis Marques would certainly be the one who would never do anything against the Will and Honor of Aset.

Another interesting point is that I have never seen Luis Marques to encourage anyone into bowing down before him. Not even once. People do it out of their own Will. And if it is their own Will and pride to bow, why would he force them not to? It would be a disrespect towards their own views, Will and honor. He may not even like it. People don't have to bow down before anyone specific to be respected among the Asetians or the Asetianists, but if they do so, they should be allowed to express their spirituality freely without judgement. And on that point, I believe Master Marques have always dealt with the situation brilliantly and very wisely. As it would be expected from a true Master...
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Post by Divine 277 07.04.10 0:20

I dint confuse it for Christianity.... I have Luis Marques at twitter an i see how people treat him.... But I see your point.

Luis Marques has very little influence of how his "followers" great him, and that will be for everyone self to decide.
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Post by Aleina 30.04.10 8:17

I don't think anyone should respect Luis Marques blindly, and bow just because everyone else does, but if you think he deserves respect and would only bow if he "bows back", then save your back-pain and keep it to yourself, because in that case, a fake gesture and a selfish movement like that is worthless. I say this generally, not pointed at anyone.

I don't even think Luis Marques is comfortable with all the intense "bows" and deep forms of respect he receives, he is not here asking us to respect him. He gets respect because we wish to give it.

Regards.
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Post by Divine 277 30.04.10 11:35

My point was that respect goes both ways ....

You can not have deep respect for someone that you truly don't know the nature of ....

I'm talking about the levels of respect, not that they should not respect him for his work and so on..or as an creature of nature....
but as I said , there are levels of respect and different types of it to...
and Well I guess he had his reasons for writing the book and I surely think that he knew what it would lead to....

And Aleina: Its not fake to to treat others, as you self want to be treated , or the other way around Wink Its curtsy....and a leader should also bow fore his people. because without his people he has nothing more then everybody else ....A leader is nothing whit out his followers......

I'm sorry if my English writing is a bit of and if it is a bit difficult to understand, Im not that costume to write English, I´am a Norwegian and the languages are very different Wink

Sincerely Divine277
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Post by AndreiaLi 06.05.10 18:00

Personally, when I bow I do that in sign of Love, Respect and Honor to the other.
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Post by Aleina 19.05.10 22:06

AndreiaLi wrote:Personally, when I bow I do that in sign of Love, Respect and Honor to the other.

I respect that view.
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Post by Naoom 04.01.17 10:54

I don't see this as a kind of worship as the word originally meant work for.I find positive that they express their desire to show him their respect.There is nothing negative about it but I don't feel like Mr.Marques would accept the term ''My Lord''.
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Post by Lynskha 21.09.17 13:11

I was reading this post about the act of bowing, how some people believe there are some whoo exagerate in how they see Luis Marques, and treat him.

My opinion is that when something is deep, and teaches us in a profound level, it deserves our respect.

It is not a matter of blind worshipping, it is a matter of respect.

The way each individual acts, is up to them. Some feel this way of showing their love, and admiration, others may be more reserved.

I am sure that many who are admired, do not ask for it, but gain it because of what they do, and what they are.

My contact with this path is just very new. but I know how to recognize when something is serious, mature, and powerful.

I already have a deep sense of respect for Aset ka, the Asetianists and Luis Marques.

I respect, I admire, and why not say I would bow? Not because of worshipping, but because I recognize I can learn a lot from it. And when something, someone can teach us, even using simple methods, that trully deserves our respect.
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Post by Charby 16.12.17 19:54

Yes, bowing, be that a complete, on the kneed, submission, a bend at the waist or, only the bowing of you head is a show of respect, of your willingness to defer to the superior or more extensive knowledge, experience and understanding of the ones you bow to.

It's simply saying, without speaking "I respect you, I find you beautiful, I honor all you may teach me."

He is one of the few I bow to, there are others I my life, be that an actual physical bow, or the attitude of bowing to them. My journey is not complete, I am not at the beginning nor the end of my journey, there are those further along than I and,those just now crossing thresholds I crossed long ago. I bow to those who may impart knowledge and wisdom to or, show me some beauty I have not yet seen. In turn, there are a small few who may bow to me for the same reasons.

A bow need not be a physical act, only an attitude of respect and, openness to what the other is a what the other may teach you.
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Post by BlackCat 21.01.21 21:19

I believe that it stems from the same jolt of energy that one feels when another entity parrots their subconscious back to them.
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Post by 8lou1 23.01.21 12:55

i have been thinking about my travels in the realms and why i sometimes bow to certain beings and why i dont with others. it also came to my mind that in morrocco they have a very old university (some say the oldest in the world) where they made the doors extra small in order for you to bow on entrance.

the latter is quite easily to explain and easily understood by the brain: bowing on entrance should remember ones smallness in comparison to god, or for a non-believer the smallness of ones place in the universe.

now when i bow in the realms it is a bit different as i go there to find interaction (for whatever reason, be it wisdom, healing,war, etc.) and this can also imho be the reason for bowing as mentioned in this discussion.

for me it has to do with the willingness to humble ones self in order to receive, so it also has to do with the situation one is in. (With certain beings it has to do with danger and creating safety or with others trickery to gain something,etc,) Overall its actually quite the form of communication where energy can flow like a river from a mountain, downwards not upwards.
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Post by Tehom 28.01.21 10:52

8lou wrote: Overall its actually quite the form of communication where energy can flow like a river from a mountain, downwards not upwards.

One of the more uncommon understandings of this Sacred act. Also the energetic " invitation "— or Welcoming—that follows the gesture ... hence it Being a thing only given to those deserving of it.
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Post by Lynskha 27.02.23 12:08

I was just revisiting some posts here, and then I found myself thinking about the concept of respect and recogition for something that has a grat value. When we honor knowledge we are able to recognize a great person that humbly brings us so much, sometimes in simple words, simple but imbuied with magick.
The act of bowing, in my opinion, shows this respect we have, and how thankful we are for having this knowledge brought to us.

Recognizing a person as a Master, is being able to show respect, humbleness as well. Not only a Master, but many people that know a lot of things that we don't, so I believe that this demonstration of respect and affect is honorable.
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Post by Jonathan 09.03.23 9:28

Lynskha wrote:I was just revisiting some posts here, and then I found myself thinking about the concept of respect and recogition for something that has a grat value. When we honor knowledge we are able to recognize a great person that humbly brings us so much, sometimes in simple words, simple but imbuied with magick.
The act of bowing, in my opinion, shows this respect we have, and how thankful we are for having this knowledge brought to us.

Recognizing a person as a Master, is being able to show respect, humbleness as well. Not only a Master, but many people that know a lot of things that we don't, so I believe that this demonstration of respect and affect is honorable.

Hello Lynskha, haven't seen you in a long time. You used to be very active in here several years ago right?
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Post by Lynskha 09.03.23 11:41

Hello Jonathan, how are you?

Yes, I used to interact here in the past. It has been more than 2 years I believe. I was a bit distant from many things. I have returned now and it has been good to be active again. At least inside the short time I have. I missed the community and the good discussions. The exchange during conversations is always something very enriching.
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Post by Jonathan 09.03.23 12:01

All great here, many exciting news from the witchcraft side of things. I take it that you have heard all the unveiled details about the Primordial Dragon tradition? Glad to see you back.
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Post by Lynskha 09.03.23 14:41

I heard about the website then I got really interested. That is something that brought me back to me more active. So far I was able to explore the website a little bit and it made me really glad what I saw. I was happy and thankful to see Aset Ka disclosed such a beautiful thing to us, the general public.
I believe the Asetianist community can benefit a lot from that. I hope to keep on learning, and I am glad I am being able to return to interact with all of you.
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Post by Troublemaker 29.09.23 16:53

I love returning to this thread. Such a potent message here.
I feel like the current of the Primordial Dragon inspires deep submission, surrender, and devotion. There’s such a beautiful doorway of magick there, something that’s incorruptible and pure, approachable only in emptiness.

I love the cultural element of bowing. Especially since it tends to incur the loathing, visceral fear-based rage, and condemnation of the herd. That is beautiful and I feel it can only fuel devoted Asetianists who freely bow to Master Marques and others. Like Lyn said, a show of respect and humility, and a hidden altar of renewal.
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Post by MysticLightShinethForth 30.09.23 2:40

I think that may depend on culture, for instance Hindu culture where it's very common to bow in front of gurus, teachers, others, temples, shrines, deities. For them it'd be everyday.
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Post by Troublemaker 30.09.23 8:51

Hindu culture is quite beautiful! Isn’t this one of your major areas of interest? Please feel free to write more about it in the future.
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Post by MysticLightShinethForth 30.09.23 9:01

Used to be. Have moved on to a different set of interests for now but it's always in the background.

Also let's not forget the Japanese who bow to each other in greeting. Very beautiful culture influenced by the Asetians in history. I think, all in all, it's mostly Western society that condemns and misunderstands the sacred or respectful nature of bowing. Typically a target of such arrogant, materialistic and ignorant culture.
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Post by Troublemaker 02.10.23 7:41

The Japanese culture is exquisite. I feel they are quite a major standard of excellence. It wasn’t until after finding Asetianism that their ways made full sense to me. Very Asetian indeed, which is what makes them such a hallmark of beauty.
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Post by SoulTower0 03.10.23 17:57

I do like this topic because it seriously challenges anyone sincerely interested.

Even those that might know the rightest way and maturest meaning deliberately as an expert occultist.

Honestly speaking, I'm an oldschool at heart, but before that, there is a simple reason to some that meets me in person, I might do this to.

Because I fold my hands together before anyone who can make real change upon themselves and transform their mind.

That is the truth I bow down to. The level of folding and bowing might change, but serious efforts that's naturally apparent earns its praise. In a lasting way because it is done in a lasting way itself.

I think Rhea also has a video on her YT channel regarding this, but I'll leave it up to her to enrich the thread. The videos & channel I'm thankful for were what brought me back to this path.

Thank you all for the exchange. In past, and in possible future replies I'll observe as well.

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Post by Troublemaker 04.10.23 8:57

Thank you for your kind words!
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