The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

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The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Pyrene on 19.06.13 21:22

Greetings to everyone,

In this topic I would like to comment an admirable clue left in the books by Luis Marques.

In the Asetian Bible, you'll note that the order of the three Asetian Lineages used throughout the whole book is Serpent - Scorpion - Scarab (AB, pp. 49, 101-126, etc). Next, in the Book of Orion, you will note that differently from the Asetian Bible, the order adopted in this book is Serpent - Scarab - Scorpion (BoO, pp. 21-22, the Book of Giza, etc).

For me, who already am an admirer of Marques' work, this is an extremely important difference between the AB & BoO, and a factor that will bring a deeper meaning to the essence, sequence, and the initiatic meaning of each one of the three books (Asetian Bible, Kemet, Book of Orion).

In Liber Yesod (BoO, pp. 75-131) one learns about the meaning of the Tree of Life and how it reflects an essencial part of the Asetian thought. After learning about this, one should note that according to the correspondences made between the Sephiroth and the Lineages (page 108):


- Below the Abyss, and going from below to above, the order of the lineages is Serpent - Scorpion - Scarab (for instance: Yesod-Hod-Netzach, or Tiphereth-Geburah-Chesed). This is the order used in the Asetian Bible;

- Above the Abyss, and going from above to below, the order of the lineages is Serpent - Scarab - Scorpion (Kether-Chokmah-Binah), which is the order used in the Book of Orion.


This leads me to conclude that according to the nature and order by which each book was published, they represent symbolically a kind of "crossing the Abyss" and achieving the Infinity in Orion...


· The Asetian Bible, as an introduction to the Aset Ka, is not as deep and a 'demanding' lecture as the Book of Orion, and so represents a type of knowledge that is adequate below the Abyss.

· Kemet, as a book written with silence, letting the images speak for themselves, is the proper crossing of the Abyss, the stage in Da'ath, in which the Illusion can only be beaten by Silence – and stillness.

· And finally, as a unveiling of the mysteries of Initiation, the Book of Orion becomes the representation of the three sephiroth above the Abyss, the Three Lineages of Serpent, Scarab and Scorpion...


* * *

There is more to be written, but I would like to know your opinions or intuitions about this. Smile

Regards,

Pyr.
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Maxx on 19.06.13 21:48

When you enter the Abyss.....your life is turned upside down and everything you held as thoughts of sanity and safety are completely weighed again for your consideration.   This sounds a little different than your description......The Abyss is confronted both physically and mentally and everything of value (that you thought was important to you) will be tested....then if you are successful in crossing you will come out on the other side....if not successful.....you may well lose your mind as well as your life......

This is not for someone to play games with.....as it could become the last game you play.
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Jonathan on 20.06.13 4:03

I loved reading this, very interesting theory. I think it does make a lot of sense, magickally. I noticed the differences in Lineage order and was sure that had a meaning but didn't fully understand how to fit that piece of the puzzle (Marques is known for giving us a lot of different occult puzzles through his works). If you are accurate that brings even deeper meaning to the occult layers presented by those 3 books in a kind of (triple) symbolism that is perfectly Asetian!

This may well be one of the best posts I have read in a while. Thanks Pyrene.
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Pyrene on 20.06.13 4:12

Hi Maxx,

My description of the experience in Da'ath, the Abyss, was intentionally simplistic and incomplete, as my purpose wasn't to describe it but instead to connect the three books with the three stages – below the Abyss, in the Abyss, and above the Abyss – based on the order of the Lineages being used in each one of them.

In the Abyss, the God you were praying to and crying for help, becomes the Enemy who is about to destroy you – and He *should* tear you to pieces, ripping the flesh from your bones and leaving your skeleton untouched (as He Himself is)... for only through Death can one know True Life: and the True Will.

The Abyss is sacred ground... filled with blood and insanity.
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Pyrene on 20.06.13 4:15

Jonathan, I'm glad you enjoyed this. Smile
Thanks for your message!
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Victor on 20.06.13 16:40

Each Marques' book works as different magickal lenses. Each focuses on the transcendent reality of Asetian magickal wisdom through the initiate point of view in relation to his position in the Universe, so that the Abyss is allowed to fragment that reality and truth. Very good post with valuable initiatory elements for the advanced student.

Passing through the Abyss is one of the ultimate initiations but it takes death to learn such lesson completely.
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Maxx on 20.06.13 17:43

Pyrene and Victor,

The reason for my statement regarding the abyss is to fill in the void for some of those coming through here which are similar to wanting to be interviewed by the press.....for those that have no idea there is anything such as the crossing of the Abyss, and those that play games in life and over the computer.  Some have never even heard of the Abyss. 

Good concept, Pyrene.
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Kalb on 20.06.13 18:58

Em Hotep, Pyrene.

The Asetian formula has and is been something dead and meaningless to many people, and mysterious and complex to some and that's Science, a spiritual science where you need wake up your inner Intuition to unlock the door to the path of the Wise. Our ego is often our biggest rival, is our greatest enemy by creating illusions and fantasies and then makes us poor beings. I agree with you about the work of the Master Luis Marques, he is a genius and the truth is that their books have shown this. Some believe that the best way of dealing with mankind, especially with the ignorant and foolish is to lead them to the knowledge, treat them with respect and be patient with them and that is why we are warned at the beginning of the book to have respect and honor for the magick that books have. All this to give you the welcomed to our forum and Asetianism. This is very important details, details that worth gold to us, people know very little about you, please do not run away from us, stay here and I'm sure we will learn many things with you. 

I have nothing to add except ask to Pyrene to continue his study.
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Victor on 21.06.13 7:05

Maxx, I understand your reasons. I wasn't disagreeing with you, just further emphasizing on the nature of the Abyss and complementing the previous line of thought put forward by you and Pyrene.
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Maxx on 21.06.13 10:00

Thanks.....Understood.
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Jonathan on 21.06.13 10:51

Following the ideas shared in this thread, do you think that we could assume that the Asetian Bible centers its teachings so much around vampirism because that is the human understanding of the Asetians while locked in the prison of the physical as explained in the Book of Orion, and so highly limited in scope of understanding, while the Book of Orion itself barely addresses the subject of vampirism as it shows a higher perspective, illuminated from the initiated understanding found above the Abyss in the three higher sephiroth?
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Pyrene on 21.06.13 17:30

I tend to agree with you, Jonathan.

In my point of view, one of the purposes behind the Asetian Bible was to "filter" the type of readers and students of Asetianism. The first impulse of an unilluminated mind would be to interpret everything that is written in the Asetian Bible as literal truths (*), while there is a much deeper meaning behind the Lineages, Vampirism, and the Divine in Asetianism.

Asetianism is above all an Initiatic Path, like the ancient greek, egyptian and gnostic Mystery Cults, and what this means is that the spiritual truths mustn't be revealed directly to the novice, but instead it is expected from the novice/apprentice to discover it by himself by studying and reading "between the lines" what is given to him. This is essentially what we are all doing here. Joining some pieces of the puzzle, discovering some secrets and patterns, and in the end, we are all here to discover the Divine that already is within us... even if we are unaware of It. To become initiated is to become aware... or, as Luis Marques wrote:

"To become an Asetian is to die and be reborn.
To forget all you have learned and learn all you have forgotten."


Just my two cents... Smile

* * *

(*) That was actually one of the mistakes I made, even before I started studying Asetianism...
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Kalb on 22.06.13 11:28

Hum... Jonathan.

I believe it is a matter of interpretation. Asetian Bible was written in a dedicated and insightful way, is referred that the lineage of the Serpent and the Guardians are the most elitist and reserved than Scarabs, where it was shown advantages and disadvantages of the three lineages, and concubines were put in third place because they are more sociable with humanity showing an ideology of character.
A good example is the number 3 - Representing the cycle of evolution - Life, Death and Rebirth, giving a evolutionary concept of Asetian Wisdom. (Asetian Biblie - Numerology). In the Book Of Orion, we see that order exchanged and the secret revealed, we started understanding the concepts of Asetians and tips to understand the Path of wisdom. A magical concept the lineages was changed in the BoO because of their metabolism and its position in magick. I believe there is a big difference as we see the lineages on the physical plane and as we see the lineages in the tree of life.
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Jonathan on 23.06.13 5:24

I agree with Pyrene that interpreting many things in the Asetian Bible as literal truths and taking its contents at face value is a common (and easy) mistake. The book is much more complex than that but it's written in such a way that the unilluminated mind will be deceived into fantasy. I think there are big differences in approach between the two books. The Book of Orion is a work that I can show all my occult friends and discuss with anyone educated in the magickal arts knowing they might appreciate its contents, on the other hand most people without spiritual understanding will find the book boring and not understand how high it actually aims. Those are the people who may actually like the AB but not the Book of Orion. The Asetian Bible has appealed to a lot of ego-driven people who seek power and delusion, some who we have seen literally worshipping Asetianism and then abandoning it in frustration by reaching dead ends, often attempting all sorts of drama and attention-seeking in the process. Those people are among the ones who will not understand the Book of Orion. So my idea is that those locked inside the limitations of Malkuth might feel drawn to the AB for its deceiving allure of mystery without seeing deeper into its magick, while the Book of Orion requires the readers to study it from an evolved perspective appealing to those who have undergone some form of initiation (natural or induced). On the other hand, many mature occultists who may enjoy the Book of Orion might not like the Asetian Bible and be tricked by its (obviously intentional) protection into seeing it as fantasy as typically found in the superficial vampire community. That happens because they lack the tools and keys to see deeper into the Asetian Bible, such secrets that are only discovered through hard work by Asetianists and where the Book of Orion gives a powerful aid in its understanding. It's a complex process really.
I'm not saying that the AB is a book for the more limited ones, I actually find it a very powerful and misunderstood book, but its energy is to be felt more than understood while its contents are incredibly symbolical, easily deceiving the ones seeking ego, while the Book of Orion actually initiates through content and pure teaching. Not sure if I'm making sense to everyone.
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by N.Augusta on 23.06.13 8:01

Never forget the beauty of simplicity!

On the practical side, the AB is an introduction to who they are, where they come from, how they originated, what they are about, and it includes an introduction into metaphysical concepts, vampire concepts, etc...All of this was needed to come out and say, "Hello World, we are still here!" It was needed to set the foundation. Its purpose is to reach out and find the lost ones.

If the "Book of Orion" were to of come out first, then that would of not worked out too well. While the book doesn't go into vampires, it still mentions "Asetians" and were one clueless as to what the heck an "Asetian" is (and dismiss vampires in general because of the non-sense out there) then the book would not be of as much value to the individual as it is to those who are already aware and follow the path. For example, the beauty of the poetry in it would be lost in the wind. The Asetians version of the Tree of Life and the sephiroths, wouldn't make as much sense. And, for example, while they have Gods/Goddesses at certain sephiroths, Crowley's Egyptian version in "777" has some of those exact same ones listed, but on different sephiroths. So, if I share this with a 7th degree brother, for example, they will look at me like, and tell me, "I don't get it!" especially if they are a die-hard Crowley one, and I have to respect that and their understanding just as they do mine. What I do, is I will share some quotes from the book and tweets with others that are not Asetian related which they can understand, but I know if they don't follow this path, the full beauty will not be seen by the unaware, which by no means makes me no better than them nor makes me special, as they may very well see beauty in other spiritual things that my eyes cannot see, and that is okay! So, in my own way, I share some of the beauty of this gem. :DNow, also consider the Introduction, it will make little sense to someone who doesn't understand any of this, nor some of the things that have happened in the community. The book was meant to give the ones who are aware and follow the path a glimpse into their deeper teachings and their works, and to encourage us to learn more. It speaks to those whom it is meant to speak to.

Regardless of where one is on the tree, the association of Asetians to vampires is the simplest way that any non-Asetian can understand what an Asetian is and it helped us to understand. Even after all these years, I still don't really know what an Asetian is, because I am not one. I may have an idea, but I am not one as that is not the experience I am living in this life, thus, my understanding is limited. Just as not all men are the same, not all Asetians are the same. And, just because one is a Guardian, they may have little to no traits that are listed in the AB to help us understand the lineages, yet, I think this makes them all the more special as they are all unique and different from one another. And, also consider, that many of them may not like the term "vampire" and may not even identify much with that either, nor want to, and instead identify simply with what they are, "Asetians." Wink

I think the "Book of Orion" didn't cover "vampire topics" because they already did so much of that in the AB and on the website. And, also because there is so much more to them than their wicked vampiric ways. :)And, that subject has to get boring to write about, especially when there is so much more to share and teach.

I think often, what happens, is that people choose not to see the simplicity in Marques' writings and look very hard to read more into it. With that said, he will also write with cryptic messages, leaving you to decipher things on your own, and sometimes there is much more to it than simplicity, sometimes not, which ones mind can find their own delusions or find real truths. He's just a real clever fella like that! Very Happy

Please don't take this as I am dismissing anything that has been said above or any of the ideas shared, as I am not, and I do find them interesting. I just didn't want the notion of "simplicity" to get lost in the thread, and felt the idea of simplicity need to be stated in this mix as well, helping to add to the pot.
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Jonathan on 23.06.13 17:18

All views are welcome N.Augusta! You did well, simplicity is also important and we shouldn't forget about it either.
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Victor on 24.06.13 6:00

N.Augusta wrote:Now, also consider the Introduction, it will make little sense to someone who doesn't understand any of this, nor some of the things that have happened in the community. The book was meant to give the ones who are aware and follow the path a glimpse into their deeper teachings and their works, and to encourage us to learn more. It speaks to those whom it is meant to speak to.
Concerning this bit I just wanted to add that while the Introduction in the Book of Orion can bring deeper teaching to those who have experienced changes and events in the community along the years it also brings those same teachings in a much more universal form that I believe can be understood and assimilated by anyone with some balance and maturity. If you approach it from a much more global perspective rather than your view of the community you will see that this Introduction chapter is also timeless. Some of the warnings and points raised by Marques can be seen reflected in many situations and communities, not just Asetianism. The lack of character found in those who seek knowledge for the wrong reasons, the changes in the worshippers when facing rejection, the typical progress of praise-to-insult when personality is weak, those are all recurring situations that will happen again and again, and such teachings are a clear example of Marques educating not just as an occult master but also in the realm of human psychology. In 60 years from now that same Introduction will still be valid and applied to new situations, found in the mindset of new people, doing the same universal mistakes. The teaching really isn't restricted by time or to our experience within this community, although it surely gives a great lesson to those who can relate to it and have seen it unfold.
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Divine 277 on 24.06.13 6:46

I liked the introduction it made the book a bit more personal,  shows another side of Luis Marques.  I have read true this tread and I think its wonderful to see so many contributing and sharing their thoughts.  Thank You Smile
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Re: The Three Lineages – below and above the Abyss

Post by Jonathan on 25.06.13 18:07

I would say that nearly everyone in the community knows one or another individual who probably wanted to throw him/herself under the table while tasting the power of that introduction and have seen the fools they were on the grand scheme of things. Even if not admitting it, some felt that shock for sure.

I just love how the Asetians can teach through so many different and unexpected ways, and how they continue to do so sometimes even without needing a word to cause change, raise awareness or inspire some lifetime teaching.

Luis Marques doesn't seem to have a problem with bringing himself right into the fire only to later inspire his students in the alchemical lesson that fire of the weak cannot harm the strong. That's quite epic.
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