Asetianism: The undying inspiration

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Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by Jonathan on 23.09.12 5:43

I was wondering something after a long conversation with three friends last night about this very same subject, which to be honest is something that has been on my mind for a while.

I have noticed something from personal observation and this has been confirmed in different examples by people that know other members of the community better than I do. There are people that have abandoned the Asetian path, some because it was their time to move on as their purpose was in some other road, but others because they failed in understanding this tradition and sometimes even failed themselves in their own spirituality. These last ones are those that never truly left Asetianism, as they continue to talk about it on a regular basis, even if only to criticize and complain, but as the Book of Orion has shown us, they give their time, feelings and energy to Asetianism in their own unique way.
What we were discussing and realized is that most if not all of those people leave very specific marks in the way they speak, approach life and how they express themselves in different situations, that are inspired in the Asetian tradition and teachings. Almost like a fingerprint of what they learned, or at least explored, in their experience with Asetianism. This becomes clear from the way they speak about concepts such as family, love, spirituality, tolerance, balance, understanding, loyalty and bonds. From how they speak of their love for nature, even if those are often empty words used to impress without any true understanding of how the Asetians see those things and how they teach us to value them. They show that behind all those insults and words, they actually found in Asetianism, and particularly in the Asetians, a great source of inspiration. Even if they failed and succumbed to ego, using those teachings in attempts to boast about their spirituality and values, their inspiration is undeniably one: The Asetians.

This is fascinating and we all can find different examples that we have observed, some more obvious than others but making it quite clear that it is not a coincidence. So this leaves us with the question, those that left and turned against the Aset Ka but remain so inspired by Asetian words, teachings and ideals... if the fact is that the work of the Asetians on them is done and accomplished, and this is as far as they can reach and evolve, but still touched by the power and beauty of the Violet Flame.
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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by witchmark on 23.09.12 10:21

Jonathon, I enjoyed reading your post. I agree that the Violet Flame leaves a lasting mark on those that find it, even if they turn away from it. Thank you for such a wonderful perspective that I had not thought of before. It is always nice to have something to think about and today, you are the one to give that to me.

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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by Kalb on 24.09.12 0:41

Interesting topic, Jonathan. Yesterday, I've also been talking to a friend about the Inspiration of Asetianism around the world. We reached the conclusion that people are using the popular occultism instead Traditional. They like things Quick and with good results as described in Book Of Orion.

I fully agree with what was said and I want to add that throughout this time I have noticed that there are three types of people who come to Asetianism:

1. Those who come to feel the Love of the Violet Flame;
2. Those who come to be ambitious and rich in Power;
3. Those who come to seek knowledge.

In Section Two and Three I have seen many people falling, some angry by what found and others upset because they lost time in vain in Asetianism. In the Section One I found people with alot of Respect with Asetians and slowly they learn the meaning of love and magic. Of course that anyone in the occult path learns the meaning of magic, but I think the magic of Asetians touch in a special and different way...and when it comes to Love we must take into consideration that Asetians live an intense love, from Ancient Egypt, loving and caring each incarnation. Not a Love like most of humanity feels. Often end up frustrated by a life believing that Love does not exist, a creation of human stagnation.
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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by Victor on 24.09.12 9:38

Your observation and conclusion is not that far from the truth. I believe that doesn't only teach us about inspiration but also about art in general. I have noticed that some of those only sought the arts after they have found the Asetians and drank from their wisdom. They may wish to be artists and create art, and they are obviously free to do so as we are all free, but reality is that their "art" is a weak reflection of what they learned from the Asetians, an obvious expression of the Asetian Flame, and they owe them their thread of inspiration.

They may deny it in public, as facing truth takes courage, but deep inside they know this better than we do...
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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by Sinata Anika Asti on 24.09.12 23:45

Another great and inspiring thread Smile
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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by Syrianeh on 25.09.12 1:46

Jonathan, you have made a few good points in your post. You are an inspired Asetianist as are many of us here, and it's good to see it. Asetianism has taught us deep lessons and changed most of us, in many cases for the better. It is true that it has some kind of effect on everyone who crosses its path, because its greatest force is the Force of Chaos. And that is a beautiful way to create through destruction.

Incidentally I have also been having recent conversations about this issue with friends I consider close (now that's strange, is this a coincidence for all? Surprised ) and I have learnt, both from my own experience and what others have shared with me, that it's not as black and white as you put it. Surely there are a few who've walked away from Asetianism because it just didn't resonate with them and they chose to walk different roads. That is all good. I have seen that happen (still they are changed by it, even though they will probably never realize it). And there are those who left out of spite, carrying with them a huge load of resentment and hurt. We've seen that happen too, and I'm sure you can all think of examples.

But there are some "past Asetianists" out there who are quietly living their life and fulfilling some of their own personal goals. That does not mean they have left the Path. They are learning about themselves from many other sources, one of them being Life.

Kierkegaard said "Life has its own hidden forces which you can only discover by living". And he was right. Thinking about a personal Path is often not enough. You need to feel it. And you need to remain true to your Self, which some times means going out there and regaining contact with the Self when it's broken.

Asetians don't want blind followers. They don't want to be venerated by people who've merely made a "choice" to be there. They will only accept those who truly walk their own personal paths.

It's happened to me, and to a few others. And I've seen a lot of criticism against those people merely for "not being there", or for disappearing for some time. Or even for "leaving and coming back". No matter what they do, they get critiziced. Believe me, they "are there". Asetianism is not a physical place. It's not a classroom. You don't need to check in. Its realm is the inner Self, and its force is Will.

As to the beautiful and fascinating Violet Flame, let's not forget that it's an extremely, extremely rare gift. I would not go as far as to say that the "haters" have been influenced by it. They have certainly been influenced and touched by the powerful force and magick of the Asetians, whether they like it or not, and probably will never admit. But the Violet Flame is a sacred gift, a direct source from Aset.
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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by Daniel09 on 25.09.12 5:50

I definitely am not as fervent as I was about Asetianism when I began. The main reason would have to be that when I get into it, it feels like my soul is attempting to leave my body, if that makes sense. It needs a good hiatus every now and then so I can find myself again.

Maybe that's just how it works. It definitely has led to an overall positive growth, and even if I don't explicitly advertise it to friends, they seem to be influenced by it.
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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by Jonathan on 25.09.12 7:01

Syrianeh, thank you for your nice post and thoughts, but I never intended to put things as black and white since I don't ever believe things to be like that. I did mention that it's natural for people to find other roads. The examples that I was referring as drawing inspiration from the Asetians and those were the focus of my discussion with others were the ones we call "haters" or "trolls", and lets not focus only on the past ones because that kind of people is common and this will happen many times again.
Now I never made any reference to the silent Asetianists you were speaking about, or even the ones that left and returned again. I do agree with you that most of them never truly left Asetianism and I am no one to judge those who are silent. How could I when even the Asetians are known to be silent probably more than any of us? I will even say that such silent Asetianists define the majority of the community, often unseen or unconsidered due to their silence not giving them visibility, but I do believe we (the ones who go on forums, that speak openly about it online or in real life) are a minority and only a small example of the global Asetianist community.

Now the focus of my observation on inspiration was not in reference to those that are silent or have calmly considered different roads, the influence of Asetianism on them and us is obvious and not denied or hidden in shame, but often expressed proudly. I was describing the more fascinating case of those that insult the Asetians or the Aset Ka, spread lies about them, but yet their words, claims, ideals and what they do in life show an attempt to keep alive what they have learned from them. As Victor so perfectly put it, they do owe the Asetians their thread of inspiration.
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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by Kalb on 25.09.12 14:54

As always Jonathan gives us a true picture of things.

The Asetianism is the water, and we are the mirror that reflects it, Asetian path is the path to the most pure reflexion, is a way for everyone see himself in the mirror of water and love or even hate what see. The Tarot, in a very brief description gives us the mirror of our soul meanings, such as water gives us the mirror of who we are when we face the Asetianism. The Asetianists, are really simple people, we know that life is short and we can not express all our feelings and thoughts, so we are steadfast, calm, and nothing can kill us because we know what we feel and what we want. We are not conceited nor care about fame. We just want to be the winners of the Fight, to continue our path and be as light as possible so as not to make noise and nobody hear us. It's been millennia, during all these decades followers of the Violet Flame always followed the link from the heart and it was through this connection that we come to today and we discover that secret and mysterious ways were manifesting themselves within each. Indeed, the mystery of Orion is the greatest proof of this! A Sigil created by the hands of Elders and offered to the followers to never get lost in time. A tune that break any stagnation.

Understanding Asetianism, is not easy, so many people have fallen, therefore, they can never understand its mysteries because they do not understand Asetianism. With that, I am not saying that I understand the mysteries of the book, I'm far from it, but I think I'm on the right path to gradually understand the teachings of the Elders, the way of the Asetian mind. Every time that I understand a star of Asetianism, a door opens. What I've been in the past, helped me to be what I am today and today will be the basis of my future, so this path will touch my heart again in next lifes.

This to me is one of the deepest mysteries of Asetianism... We could not understand Asetianism in a single Life, The Searching It is a puzzle that we have to find the pieces in each incarnation...
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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by Syrianeh on 26.09.12 2:03

Jonathan, thank you for the clarification. Please excuse me if I misunderstood some of your message. It did seem to me that you were putting the "absent Asetianists" in the same category as the haters. I now see that you did not mean that.

I still think it's a good point to ponder.
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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by N.Augusta on 26.09.12 18:40

"Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will."

Let me start here by saying that the topic of the fallen is irrelevant. Concern yourself not with the orbit of other stars, concern thyself only with the orbit of thy own star. Each star orbits at his or her own pace-- none is right, none is wrong, as all must follow their own course. Judge not the orbit of another star for no star can ever be in anothers orbit to understand their travels and troubles. No two stars ever were nor will ever be on the same orbit. None, regardless of status or self imposed status of importance are better or greater than the next, regardless if one thinks that thyself shines brighter than the next star, for that too is irrelevant.

This thinking of "they owe credit to the Asetians for their inspiration, etc.' is that of ones very own. Is it important in any way whatsoever if they do or do not give credit? Is it important to the orbit of our own stars? I would say not. Leave them be in peace to travel their own orbit. Who cares! To say they have "failed at their own spirituality" is not a statement that can be made-- there is no contest. We cannot say they lost their love for Aset, who knows, but even if some have, let's say, well, that is irrelevant as their orbit may have lead them on another path which they need to experience as we all need to experience our own unique individual paths. That is not to say that their orbits will not return them to what they left--who knows! Those who stay are no better, nor more special than those who leave or better than anyone else in the world for that matter. We all make mistakes and are all imperfect.

It is my opinion that the Asetians do not care about such things. They don't care that John Doe was inspired by them and thus transformed and still walked away as all are free. They are not debt-collectors coming around asking those who fall to "pay up" for being inspired-- they have no concern for such. Nor wish someone ill for leaving.

I would also like to remind that the ideas of love, honor, loyalty etc., are not Asetian specific concepts. We can see examples of these things all around us through out the ages. However, if the Asetians inspired one more so to take on such qualities then that is wonderful. If you possessed such qualities prior to coming onto this path then most likely because of these traits possessed then you most likely have attracted some great people in your life already who have been around you for years, which, is wonderful too. What I will say is that these traits start with Self as first we must love Self, be honorable towards Self, etc., for only then will we be able to share these things with others. Those who choose to leave would do themselves a disservice were they not to explore other things which they are meant to experience.

If we only are inspired from one source, then we limit ourselves and our own growth. To be inspired in a positive way is a beautiful thing. The Asetians encourage learning from various sources. With that said, I know there are other things that inspire us all, regardless of how different those things are.

Honestly, we know next to nothing about the violet flame-- a brief summary page in the AB about it is what has been revealed, which, by no means, covers it as it gives us just a tiny fraction of a glimpse. Not that we are meant to truly understand it or that the specifics are meant to be shared with the public, but I think it is one of those subjects that is too hard to put in words.

I invite you all to have a read, and or listen to the reading that I am sharing. Very true words in this reading and food for thought. Enjoy!

Reading: "On Thelema" by Aleister Crowley, read by
U.S. National Grand Master General, Frater Sabazius X°

http://ec.libsyn.com/p/5/2/a/52a1e62a99942b96/speech-in-the-silence-033.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d01cc8f31d2ce542728&c_id=4861060

This reading starts about 2 minutes in and lasts about 8 minutes. I will also paste a snippet of what was read here. Should one wish to listen and read along then the whole thing can be read at http://sekhetmaat.com/wiki/Documents/On_Thelema

If you wish, listen to the whole podcast as there is more in the episode. I also suggest listening to the other part in this podcast by Sabazius about his observations on Liber Oz.
I love listening to him and reading his words, as he too inspires me. Smile
In this episode:

Intro music: Song of Adoration by Frater Oz
Reading: "On Thelema" by Aleister Crowley, read by
U.S. National Grand Master General, Frater Sabazius X°
Musical Interlude: "Liber Magi" set to music by Shemyaza Camp, Ordo Templi Orientis
Brother Cameron Leonard-Schroff talks about the process of making the IO PAN! album with Shemyaza Camp, O.T.O.
"Observations on Liber Oz" by U.S. National Grand Master General, Frater Sabazius X°
Musical Interlude: "Upon the Beast She Rideth" by Dødsengel
Living Thelema: The Star Ruby
Announcements and News about the Thelemic Community
Outro music: Song of Adoration by Frater Oz

"Each conscious being, therefore, must differ from every other by virtue of its position in the universe; one not of latitude and longitude, nor of time and space, but rather a position of degree or state of consciousness, of point of view. Its identity, likewise, must of necessity be one of pure negation. The value of any being is determined by the quantity and quality of those parts of the universe which it has discovered, and which therefore compose its sphere of experience. It grows by extending this experience, by enlarging, as it were, this sphere. In the case of two beings possessing little or no experience in common, mutual understanding is clearly impossible. Sympathy is thus seen to be more a question of experience being approximately conterminous, or at least coincident with respect to a large proportion of the experiences to which special value is attached by both. The real value of any new experience is determined by its aptitude for increasing the sum total of knowledge, or the degree of understanding and illumination it sheds on previous experiences.

As a general rule, then, the greater the sum of coincident experiences of any two beings, the greater the likelihood of their general agreement. Thus, at a certain point in development a being is very likely to consider any disagreement with him as definite error, and it is an extremely important stage in progress to reach an habitual attitude of mind which realizes that any divergent view of a given question is due not to moral obliquity, but to a greater variety of assimilable experiences. Such individuals grow in a very special manner when they learn to welcome divergent points of view and contrary experiences, and seek to assimilate them, as understanding that this is the best possible way to acquire at a single stroke an immensity of new experiences instead of having to go through them in detail.

It should be clear from the foregoing that the Law of Thelema “Do what thou wilt” must be a logical rule of conduct to anyone who accepts the above premises, for the ultimate Will of every conscious being must be to so increase his general experience as to understand and know himself, which he can only do by studying and understanding the whole universe. That the task is endless is no detriment to this process, but makes it all the more interesting. It is the way of the tao. Finality would cloy." Part of what can be found in this reading.
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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by Maxx on 26.09.12 19:01

Well....Uncle Fester read the whole thing......and enjoyed it......and just this morning Witchmark and I were having a conversation about some of these very points......and the fact that many are looking at the same things all over the world...I would say this is coming into play worldwide.....soon....
I look forward to the individual orbits becoming more pronounced....
Thanks for this presentation.

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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by N.Augusta on 26.09.12 19:52

I look forward to that too, Unclie Fester. Smile
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Smile I agree with you and Witchmark, and it sounds like you two had a very interesting conversation.

"Shine on you crazy diamond."
"May we all shine on, like the moon and the stars and the sun."
Classics! Smile
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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by Maxx on 26.09.12 19:59

yes....in bright sunlight my head does shine...very brightly

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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by N.Augusta on 26.09.12 20:18

Patience with that, Fester!
Gomez and I are working diligently on a solution for you.


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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by Jonathan on 27.09.12 4:16

N.Augusta wrote:Let me start here by saying that the topic of the fallen is irrelevant. Concern yourself not with the orbit of other stars, concern thyself only with the orbit of thy own star. Each star orbits at his or her own pace-- none is right, none is wrong, as all must follow their own course. Judge not the orbit of another star for no star can ever be in anothers orbit to understand their travels and troubles. No two stars ever were nor will ever be on the same orbit.
I must say I disagree with you here N.Augusta, simply because I don't follow the same belief and philosophy on that subject. The idea that everyone is following the exact perfect orbit for their own evolution is a typical belief found in Thelema and something mentioned by Crowley that it really doesn't make sense in my own personal view of things. If that would be true that would mean that every child molester, rapist, psychopath and war-raising politician would be in their own ideal orbits for their growth and that we should only concern about ours. That makes no sense. We are here to cause change and not only in ourselves, Self can't be our single concern as you continuously say. Otherwise we would be hermits, living in isolation and caring only for ourselves.
Our orbits aren't that individual as the belief-system found in Thelema professes mostly because we are all connected. There is no star-orbits as we are no stars, we are souls constantly learning and changing but most of all making choices, and those choices influence everyone around us. Our path is highly chaotic and has nothing of an orbit about it, otherwise we would end up in the very same place we began and the journey of living and learning would be a waste of our time. We're all connected and not on any exclusively individual path as it may seem. We all shape the path of the Universe with our choices and define its future. Not all our choices are the best in our evolution and relevant to our "orbit". Some are just wrong and throw us away from our path whatever that may be. Many of those choices can be avoided with awareness and wisdom, and not everything happens as "it was meant to be". Things aren't as simple as let each star follow its orbit.
Not everyone is in their ideal path to their enlightenment and not all choices are the ones better serving their purpose in life whatever that may be. Believing anything like that is simplistic dogma to me. Because if you truly look at it with an open mind, even that perfect-orbit-to-your-growth belief is dogmatic, as most religiously inclined things are.

N.Augusta wrote:This thinking of "they owe credit to the Asetians for their inspiration, etc.' is that of ones very own. Is it important in any way whatsoever if they do or do not give credit? Is it important to the orbit of our own stars? I would say not. Leave them be in peace to travel their own orbit. Who cares!
Let me just briefly comment on this statement so that my opinion will not be misunderstood. When I agreed with that thinking I never meant that they should give any form of public or private credit to what they say and do to the Asetians. All I meant to agree with and think it was the point of the original poster was that it doesn't really matter if they admit it or hide that, that anyone with a bit of awareness and paying attention can see that their great inspiration in life is the very thing they condemn and fear, the Asetians. It doesn't really matter if they credit or not, if they admit it or lie about it. Who cares really, that is just noise. The only thing that matters is that it's there.
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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by Maxx on 27.09.12 5:58

Good....I got some new flea powder just in case.
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Re: Asetianism: The undying inspiration

Post by Kalb on 27.09.12 14:22

I believe with the publication of the Book of Orion, we have a better interpretation of the Asetian Inspiration. I agree with Jonathan when he says that we are souls and not stars, but I personally love the symbolism of the stars and I believe that regardless of our choices we always shine like the stars. Actually, our inspiration is in the stars.

N.Augusta: I agree with you that the inspirations are all over the world and I agree with you that there are many people inspired. But my point here is quite different. People are really inspired, religion, philosophy or any kind of art have this power. But I tell you that one thing is Being Inspired and lifelong need to inspire millions of people with messages... other thing is to give meaning to the life of each person. Asetianism has that power, can Inspire and can give meaning in Spiritual Evolution. We saw in the book of Orion, that the universe itself to become something complex had to have a meanings. Aset gave a meanings to their Children and Asetians gave meaning to their Followers.

We can appreciate this art in the 3 Sebayt and all Asetian Work. The main key is Asetianism is not vampirism, but personal evolution, out there, people criticize the Asetianism because they think vampirism described by Asetian is fake and the fact is that throughout our personal experience we noticing they have only hatred for being wrong. They are concerned with fame. Therefore, they choose the meaning of life ... Fame. The Fame is a false inspiration, short and exists only when there fans. Until the day that new theories, a marketing model more updated and more radical that make you forget the old famous.

Asetianism do not consists in others, but in our individual worth. The fame and the money depend on others.

This is the difference between Inspiration with meanings and Inspiration without meanings.
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the ouroborus. example

Post by GodmanOmar777 on 18.10.12 13:04

Jonathan wrote:
N.Augusta wrote:Let me start here by saying that the topic of the fallen is irrelevant. Concern yourself not with the orbit of other stars, concern thyself only with the orbit of thy own star. Each star orbits at his or her own pace-- none is right, none is wrong, as all must follow their own course. Judge not the orbit of another star for no star can ever be in anothers orbit to understand their travels and troubles. No two stars ever were nor will ever be on the same orbit.
I must say I disagree with you here N.Augusta, simply because I don't follow the same belief and philosophy on that subject. The idea that everyone is following the exact perfect orbit for their own evolution is a typical belief found in Thelema and something mentioned by Crowley that it really doesn't make sense in my own personal view of things. If that would be true that would mean that every child molester, rapist, psychopath and war-raising politician would be in their own ideal orbits for their growth and that we should only concern about ours. That makes no sense. We are here to cause change and not only in ourselves, Self can't be our single concern as you continuously say. Otherwise we would be hermits, living in isolation and caring only for ourselves.
Our orbits aren't that individual as the belief-system found in Thelema professes mostly because we are all connected. There is no star-orbits as we are no stars, we are souls constantly learning and changing but most of all making choices, and those choices influence everyone around us. Our path is highly chaotic and has nothing of an orbit about it, otherwise we would end up in the very same place we began and the journey of living and learning would be a waste of our time. We're all connected and not on any exclusively individual path as it may seem. We all shape the path of the Universe with our choices and define its future. Not all our choices are the best in our evolution and relevant to our "orbit". Some are just wrong and throw us away from our path whatever that may be. Many of those choices can be avoided with awareness and wisdom, and not everything happens as "it was meant to be". Things aren't as simple as let each star follow its orbit.
Not everyone is in their ideal path to their enlightenment and not all choices are the ones better serving their purpose in life whatever that may be. Believing anything like that is simplistic dogma to me. Because if you truly look at it with an open mind, even that perfect-orbit-to-your-growth belief is dogmatic, as most religiously inclined things are.

N.Augusta wrote:This thinking of "they owe credit to the Asetians for their inspiration, etc.' is that of ones very own. Is it important in any way whatsoever if they do or do not give credit? Is it important to the orbit of our own stars? I would say not. Leave them be in peace to travel their own orbit. Who cares!
Let me just briefly comment on this statement so that my opinion will not be misunderstood. When I agreed with that thinking I never meant that they should give any form of public or private credit to what they say and do to the Asetians. All I meant to agree with and think it was the point of the original poster was that it doesn't really matter if they admit it or hide that, that anyone with a bit of awareness and paying attention can see that their great inspiration in life is the very thing they condemn and fear, the Asetians. It doesn't really matter if they credit or not, if they admit it or lie about it. Who cares really, tongue that is just noise. The only thing that matters is that it's there.
ouroborus. to me only appears to be bitting it's own tail from above, but perspective shows us through Ascension ,or decending the serpent, evolution of soul, or descending of spirit, the serpent actually spirals and only appear to be bitting it own tail.
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GodmanOmar777
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