What is "nothing"?

Em Hotep,

Wow! This is truly a thread that I will be following. I can not begin to answer the above question not even remotely. This reminds me of an experiment that I did several years back. I took myself down to my basement where there was no light to be found expect from the switch at the top of the stairs. I placed a chair in the center of room and with holding a flashlight, I turned out the lights and returned to the chair. I then shut the flashlight off.

I did this because of all the things I had heard about being in complete darkness. What I found was interesting and very well may apply to some understanding of the Nun but then again, I very well may be wrong. After I had dealt with my fears as my directions became unclear as I sat there for what seemed like an eternity. I noticed that there was light in the darkness...small specks that grew.

I am looking forward to hearing other opinions on this subject. I always welcome something to think about and tonight, Stalker you have been the one to bring that to me. Thank you very much.

Light was born or created from darkness. Everything came from darkness and that darkness will absorb the light.

What does a BLACK HOLE in the universe do?.....It draws everything into it.

There is a reason that most police forces as well as SWAT TEAMS wear black and also wear a black hood that covers the face. It conveys authority.....and instills fear in the crowd.

Few People know the real reason a person wears black......it is because black draws energy into it from all sections of the universe of light like a magnet. Life Energy is drawn to black color from the light.....This helps to instill fear and the control factor into the population on a subconscious level. Dark blue is used in nearly the same way.
That person wearing black really does not know that it is like a magnet drawing extra energy into their body because of the color they wear

Maxx

I agree with Witchmark, this is a very good question. Stalker, you are getting all of us thinking here

Human minds are, at this moment of our evolution, limited; and so, we believe the Universe is limted too. Our world works in concentric cycles of beginnings / endings - births / deaths. And in order to sort it all out we need to measure things. We need to measure time into seconds, hours, days, weeks, years, millenia... and height, weight, space, expanses of areas; we need to measure temperature, pressure, speed. We also need to measure less tangible things such as anger, love, mental distress, depression. And of course we need to measure the limits of our world.

The concepts of "forever" and "eternity" are difficult, if not impossible, to fully grasp because they express no measure. They are just forever. There is no end, like there is an end and a limit to everything in our known world, and thus it's not natural, not possible. The same goes for the direct opposite: nothing. That would imply no beginning, and without that there can't be anything, can there?

If you think about these two concepts, really think about them and ponder them, you will eventually come to a feeling of mental vertigo. If you think about them for a long time you might approach the verge of insanity, or even cross it. But, at the same time, you might get a glimpse of the Truth out there in our Universe:

It is. It just and simply IS. Like a pyramid, there is a place above all the layers of awareness and enlightement where there is nothing above. That's where the "being" of the Universe resides. But it's eternal. Like Nun.

Your reply to me brought to mind the section of a book I am reading even at the time I saw your post. It is the book by Franz Hartman stating......thus....

You are referring to dualism .....Those who believe that everything exists in consequence of the unconscious attraction of two principles, forget that there be no attraction if there were not some continually acting cause that produces that attraction. (I am actually saying that I personally feel that there was no big bang at all, as everything always existed within the Mind of the Divine. Always existing and never ending.....only ever changing form and construction and in a continuos movement, ever changing. We must also take into consideration whether we are talking on the subjective level or the objective level. Which one was your statement based on?).

But those that believe the dualism, say that out of nothing, nothing can come, and yet believe that unconscious attraction can produce consciousness. These are the ones that believe the absurd Two which has not real existence, because the eternal One divided into two parts would not become two Ones but the two halves of a divided One. One is the number of Unity, an Two is Division; the One ivided into two ceases to exist as a One, and nothing new is thereby produced. If the plan for the construction of the world had been made according to the ideas of the followers of Dualism, nothing could have come into existence, because action and reaction would have been of equal power, annihilating each other. Neither could there be any progression under such circumstances at present.

Sorry, I was trying to proof it when I hit the send and I did not mean to do that. I would have added this to the last post........

There can no light become manifest without Darkness, just as no evil can become manifest without good.

I never was not, nor shall I hereafter cease to be.......this statement I find in the
Bhagavad Gita.

Various forms of original energy will manifest in an endless way, by appearing, disappearing, and re-appearing again, such as you find as the Satya Yuga, Treta Yuga, Dwapara Yuga, and the Kali Yuga. These total 12,000 divine years an then repeat.

Stalker, your posting brought all of this to mind as I was reading in this present vien of thought when you appeared with this.

Maxx

Maxx wrote:You are referring to dualism .....Those who believe that everything exists in consequence of the unconscious attraction of two principles, forget that there be no attraction if there were not some continually acting cause that produces that attraction. (I am actually saying that I personally feel that there was no big bang at all, as everything always existed within the Mind of the Divine. Always existing and never ending.....only ever changing form and construction and in a continuos movement, ever changing. We must also take into consideration whether we are talking on the subjective level or the objective level. Which one was your statement based on?).

The theory of Dirac about the electron and antimatter provide a good image of vacuum to me.The mind of the Divine comes later after the explosion of "nothing". The Gods were born into a new reality, a reality that has managed to stay conscious and breathing. This is what Antoine Lavoisier's teach us about the Law of conservation of mass. - "In nature nothing is created, nothing is lost, all is transformed". I don't believe that Gods always existed, nothing comes from nothing. To me the "nothing" is an unconscious form that can breathe without the notion respiration as a signal sent unknowingly .. "ping?", "ping?" ... "ping?" and from this signal of "ping?" from the nothing "Pong!" answered. Thus giving the appearance of the Big Bang, the explosion of conscious breathing .. Ping? Pong! - Communication made ​​successfully.

The Gods came out of this new reality.. This is why we define Gods as Universe because they are roots of the new reality, the prove of Life. So, in this concept before Amon respond to "ping?" the existence of Gods was not allowed. It is exactly here that Immortality begins to be questioned, the Immortality does not come as a belief but a fact for Them. Proving that the "vacuum/nothing" will not exist again.

good reply.....but I disagree with that premise, myself. Nothing, or anything, cannot be created from nothing. I still relate with the concept that the Divine, or creator, or whatever you want to call it, has always existed.

We have always existed. We will always exist. We just change form. expansion and then contraction. expansion and constration. ebb and flow. Repeat. Something will not become from nothing. Of course, my mind is miniscule. Who knows what is going on out there beyond our limits of mind and the universe. Even here, my mind is miniscule. Things happen all around us that we are not even aware of constantly. Even animals see and hear things constantly that we are not aware of on a wider scale.

So we agree to disagree.

Maxx

Yes, the illustration you give confirms there is no sound in a vaacum. That is confirmed. We find in a black hole that is the case. Everything is consumed within that hole and everything is drawn within it. That black hole travels through the universe just like a star travels on its path through the universe.

If we are using the words of the bible, let me say only from my own opinion, I feel many things are written there that everyone can find agreement on but those words when looked at very closely, show that the teachings coming off of those words have been bent and put forth to create another meaning to fit a central direction of the "priesthood". Not in every case, mind you, but many.
Those writings mention the "Darkness" or the "void", or "nothing".

Now then, I want you to transfer your thinking right now as you sit and read these words from your physical location, and transfer them into astral thinking or the mental thinking realm. Divide your thought process and envision three different centers of location and operation. Everything you have written in your posts, you have been writing from the lowest and heaviest thought location...the physical.

Now that we have moved our thinking into a higher thought location, let us consider the process of "God". We no longer see in terms of a physical body making a magic process to create and destroy. We can possibly think on the level of a 'force' like an element of energy traveling through "everything" and through "nothing". Within this "force", there may be even a different "makeup" of "electric" and "magnetic" force. And even something between those two that we may call "electro-magnetic" forces that could even connect the "electric" and the "magnetic" forces or pieces together. Wow. Gravity. This "energy" or GOD may have the electro-magnetic element pulling two forces together. And there is a fourth one there also. We call all of these elements, fire, air, earth and water. There is another or fifth element called "spirit". We can find all of these elements in all the levels of the universe in the physical, the astral, and the mental (or mind or memory realm).

This is constantly changing and moving and creating off each other by ebb and flow, being born and growing, and being declining and dying, then repeating the flow of this process over and over again. Rotating and repeating. Day, night. dry, wet. Good, evil. Birth, death, etc. You get the point. I am describing the "Law of Nature"

Everything lives within the law of nature. The universe is living within this law.

Now if we can begin to think of God being in all parts of this organization of "Nature", we can begin to change our concept of "God" or the "Creator" of everything......Using your bible verse illustration again, we find that man was created in the image of "God"....the micro and the macro. As above, so below. Maybe we are all within this foce as the micro of "God". The "real" part of our travel is not here, the physical, as it is the astral or mental place. The more real part of our travel is the astral or mental location. We are only here and part of the physical location for just a short time....even shorter than the "blinking of an eye". We need to stop thinking in terms that everything is operating where our physical body is. We are not our body....it is only and envelope. We even see that our brain does not hold the mind. It is separate from the body.....and is outside of that brain. These are nothing but a battery concept to hold and charge us as needed. That mind will never die...and has always been....as it is a part of that "God" we are speaking of. So-called Angels and Demons are a part of this created process. Theses are another subject entirely but you can see where I would go with the concept......

No matter how hard man tries to explain the "God" element, no one has been able to prove "God" firsthand. No one has ever seen it first hand. All we can find is evidence of this "force". But to look within the micro....or ourself.....we possibly may be able to more closely understand the law of nature and how we are all a part of it .... and that we all operate within this law of nature program. ( The Godhead) as a micro part. That is us or each of each being small parts of that whole.

Your question about how we would be no different from the Gods I will answer with only my line of thought as I can speak for no one else than myself. My thoughts are thus........ our purpose on entering this lowest of level physical world is to ascend in advancement toward the higher level to ultimately separate our lowly phyical body into the particles of the "force" and become part of it and help aid the lowly physical particles to rise up and become part also. (This is a continous process...we call it reincarnation)...To make a better connection for the "un-enlightened" lowly physical beings who are on their journey.....some more advanced beings choose and are chosen by the "force" to come back and help input the "mind of the force" into a form of teaching or help. These higher beings no longer have to be confronted with the process of re-incarnation and have reached a higher level on their path upward....... so they may be called "THE GODS". When one reaches a higher knowledge of ascension, that one is no longer having to operate within the "law of Nature" and that one becomes a God, for a better term or word to illustrate it and change it over to a thought to describe it. (This is why you are beginning to hear elements from ones that are teaching "How to become a God, or become a living God, etc."). Ascension. This is what we are all seeking whether we know it at this point, or not. If one has no interest and is not being drawn to study how to rise to a higher level, then it is evident that one will be born back into this physical element to work on ascending and go through the training again......but here is one thought that needs to be included.......this physical world we are in is not the only level of advancement for that one to make advancement to higher levels. Many that are in study for higher teachings, may never have entered this physical realm at all as it seems to be the most difficult, but able to make a more quicker advancement. All of this travel is agreed to happen because of our "free will agreement". We need to begin to think on higher planes or higher levels with our thoughts. Again, to quote, "As a person's thoughts are centered, there he/she will be."

So much many will agree, and many will not agree with my thoughts at all....I only put forth my own direction of thought because of this concept in our discussion. Maybe all of you have found much higher thoughts but at this point....this is where I am.....I am open to consider all......as I am here to learn.......as we all should be.........and again, I say that we, everyone of us have different makeups, and have a different reason for being here....but each one of us is at the stage in our travel at exactly the place and time in our own lesson, that we should be. We are never too late, or too early, as the law of nature will never elevate us to a place higher or lower than we should be at our stage of education.....we are all single...but we are all a part of the whole.

Maxx

Also, Stalker, I suspect you would see the association of a few of my statements connected with the "Djehuty of the Serpent" Not all, mind you, but some of them.

Maxx

My friend, while working on a project in meditation, I actually was shown what to post to you from within even before your reply and I almost went a head to post before your reply, but did not.

Something Jonathan posted has always been in my mind since that post and it came into this reply.

You speak of stagnation of the soul. I was shown the walk of the different individuals according to my post above. Balance was the word Jonathon used in one of his replies and I was shown the connection with our search for "balance".

One must be exposed to the dark side in order to experience it and "know it". Then that one will be able to understand the light side and possibly come in and live a life of a positive factor after living a life of negative factor. This shows much experience. A walk of wisdom and knowledge is based on understanding of both sides. One must learn to master their walk of life by using both sides with wisdom. Using only one will result in the stagnation you speak of.

A person that is drawn to say the TOV and becomes involved there, and also the COS or the TOS or order of nine angles. They experience the darker element within the framework of their lives. Just living, day in and day out in those factors, will bring about stagnation in the persons life....(as well as that orgainization becoming stagnant, as well). Balance, again, will bring about growth and understanding about all things, not just one thing to become bogged down in. Those people that are involved in those organizations are not free thinkers as their thoughts are controlled completely by the overseers of the forum board...If you post outside of the captive thought of their teachings, your post is removed almost instantly from site. If you continue in this, that person will be ostracized by the rest of the group as they do not conform to the way of thought that the overseers think they should....not conforming for a length of time will get you kicked out of the group. (BIG SMILE HERE) Those groups mentioned move in the negative process almost all the time. (Even now, in the spirit realm I have been shown that the upper part of two of those groups have conducted rituals to destroy me, as if the astral world does not show what they are doing....LOL. There is nothing that is a secret in the astral....not even the heart murmur of the lead magician conducting the movement. Or even the declining heath {maybe due to stagnation} of the prime leader for in the spirit realm he looks very weak). I know he has to move about with a cane now...and he is just a baby as he is younger than I. Actually their movement is like a parasite where the upper oops members are taught how to use the members in the other levels as energy sources and they are bombarded with drawing from them each time they go into ritual thinking they are in contact with their Undead Gods.....The organization trying to live off itself. That is stagnation for you.

I am using this as an example above and not to start wars.....but now take for instance the Aset Ka. They have the ability to destroy also. They also have the ability to create and construct. There is a great and vast difference from the above groups as the Aset Ka do not live in a daily negitive vibrational state. I am saying that a person of wisdom will know and understand how to call up beings of both the dark and the light and work with them equally. Here is that word now. BALANCE. Wisdom proclaims one know how to use both sides wisely by walking in balance within the framework of your life. Not having to live in a constant state of destruction as the COS or TOV that will find the member in constant anger.. This is where one would need to use reiki on these dark members as you would know and understand that the chakras are blocked and out of balance living in that state all the time. No wonder some there are finding they have problems with anxiety, depression, fightings and disagreement among themselves ......as well as members commiting suicide. Stalker, you appear to be proficient using reiki techniques so you would certainly know more about it than I.

I cannot seem to come to agreement with you when you say some souls are not able to reincarnate because of stagnation. I do not see that as happening. It just means they have to come in and go over the same lessons until they get it right.

One thing, based on some of the things you are saying I must ask you outright.
Have you gone over and looked at the other side? Many of our questions will be answered there and for certain, as there exists no need to read on the subject as one that travels into the astral understands and learns first hand and does not have to take someones word for anything anymore. That person KNOWS for a fact what is going on in this world from that experience. Their life changes completely.

And I want to address your statement about me with knowledge directly. I am not one with a lot of knowledge. I am only a student. I desire knowledge and wisdom. I have decided that I have no catagory here as others do such as viperines, or guardians, or concubines. I may be nothing but a human. I intend to work backwards to find if I am anything other than human. My life has been very far ranging with experiences from everything. So you see, I am a constant traveler seeking knowledge and design for my life. I know I will live forever, but I will change my clothes as I have a vast wardrobe.......My designer sees to it. And you know what I am saying....

An athlete will hang out with other athletes, and a musician will seek out other musicians, an educated person will seek out those of his kind to spend his time with, and the ignorant will cluster together to find comfort with others of his kind. I want to seek those that will help me advance in my walk here. I feel that is why many of us continue to use this board. We seek the enlightenment of growth in the form of balance.

Maxx

Stalker wrote: I believe the limitation is not in cronology, but in what we can do without it. Anyway, the universe will be not "eternal" as we know and see nowadays. In a few trillions of years, all the stars will have burned and everything will be dark. All human life and enlightened concept of "Yin Yang" destroyed or will be an adaptation of Chaos?
[/justify]

Yes, I see your point here. And I agree to an extent. But who says the Universe is limited to the material, tangible part of it? (i.e. the stars). Matter cannot be destroyed, and this matter will go on existing in other, higher vibrational and more invisible modes, as it always has. Trillions of years from now solid matter will be destroyed and certainly humankind as well, but we are only but a drop in the ocean of this Universe.

Maxx wrote:An athlete will hang out with other athletes, and a musician will seek out other musicians, an educated person will seek out those of his kind to spend his time with, and the ignorant will cluster together to find comfort with others of his kind. I want to seek those that will help me advance in my walk here. I feel that is why many of us continue to use this board. We seek the enlightenment of growth in the form of balance.

This was very well said and I really agree with you. I have realized this to be true from experience and observation in different occult communities. People that seek knowledge and wish to learn tend to stick together, learn together and grow with the experiences and teachings of others. Of course there are always arguments and disagreements from time to time, but that's a natural and positive thing as it makes us question things.
In every forum and community there are disruptive people with intentions not related with knowledge and learning, and those tend to stick together too, but not with the knowledgable ones, usually finding their own fix in criticizing the knowledgable ones, just like the knowledgable ones find their fix in learning and knowledge. The ones that only care for ego will find themselves lost together with others that only value ego as well, while the ones that only value knowledge will end up with people that value knowledge. Nice post Maxx.

Jonathan,

The first part of that came from a quote in Robert Bruce's book. He prompted the direction. I will give credit to him.

Maxx

This was the first time I had a debate with someone who had a different idea of mine, and still not criticized me .. Thanks Maxx.

Jonathan...Nice comment on the quotation from Maxx...Maxx...it is always a pleasure reading your postings and that quote was a valid and shared feeling...This has been quite an interesting concept to discuss/read on...Stalker has been providing many intriguing concepts in the forum lately...It has been an enjoyable experience seeing the thoughts of everyone...To me...Nothing is Everything and Everything is Nothing...I think the truth is found in the most simple statement...It just is...When we try to dissect it...the statement loses the original power behind it and becomes complicated...Then in an abstract sense it is no longer a valid truth...

Golly Stalker. There were plenty of others commenting....not just me. You need to give yourself more credit. You merit that as you are an individual that is loved by all here.

Thanks to all of you for being here.

Maxx

Syrianeh wrote:Yes, I see your point here. And I agree to an extent. But who says the Universe is limited to the material, tangible part of it? (i.e. the stars). Matter cannot be destroyed, and this matter will go on existing in other, higher vibrational and more invisible modes, as it always has. Trillions of years from now solid matter will be destroyed and certainly humankind as well, but we are only but a drop in the ocean of this Universe.

Sorry for the delay, Syrianeh, only now that I noticed you had responded. Sorry for the mistake of not having seen your post earlier. I understand what you're saying .. just wanted to point out that the stars are not live forever. After all .. is the star that gives us life.

I wanted to revive this old thread because it touches upon a rather fantastic topic that has always intrigued me. I do believe that if Something exists, Nothing has to exist as well. Although trying to ponder on the subject of infinity has always produced interesting reactions in people. A surprising number of people get angry when infinity, or nothingness, are even mentioned. Many of these individuals are even well-educated mathematicians and physicists. People don't seem to like the concept of something so boundless that cannot fit within a finite mind.

If you have a mirror reflecting everything into its equal and opposite, the number zero is an inevitable reality. Take, for example, regular mathematics. Any negative number with its equal and opposite will always produce a zero... so I picture a huge number line, with numbers stretching infinitely in both positive and negative directions. If duality has been perfectly upheld in that number line (as in, if a number exists on one side it will have its opposite on the other) then all of it, no matter how large the quantity of numbers may be, will surely add up to zero..... yes?

So, in my humble opinion, if one will maintain that duality is an inevitable fact of our universe, surely that also implies the existence of Zero, aka Nothing, or Infinity.

Egyptian mythology speaks of a situation where Time Itself ends and Ma'at will be overtaken by Nun, thus plummeting the universe into a state of total chaos once again. I do understand that myth cannot always be taken at face value, and there are deep and heavy metaphors to be deciphered within mythology. (A consequence of leaving it all out in the open, I believe... riddles exist to keep knowledge away from those who do not deserve it.)

I also believe that light did come from darkness, although given my previous comments about duality, I realize that sounds highly contradictory of myself.

Meditating upon this subject can bring insanity. I don't say that lightly or to be melodramatic-- simply touching this subject can make the mind spin around helplessly, thus explaining the odd reactions I have observed in some people when it is mentioned, even if innocently. But anyway, I apologize if I restated some opinions previously given on this thread, but I wanted to make a bit of a contribution. I am somewhat of a nerd and this subject excites me a great deal.

Rhea Kaye wrote:So, in my humble opinion, if one will maintain that duality is an inevitable fact of our universe, surely that also implies the existence of Zero, aka Nothing, or Infinity.

The tarot has the mysteries and secrets of the universe. If we look at the Thoth Tarot, we see that zero is just the beginning of travel, of human existence. In its symbolism is the source. Despite representing "nothing" does not show what happened before the birth of the Fool. This is the secret of the Gods, where certainly there is no explanation in human language.

That is where one picks up with mathematics. It will explain the entire universe.

The answers to the questions of words are always within the words themselves. You need only the insight and knowledge gained from other words to hear what they are telling you.

Nothing =

No Thing.

Everything =

Every Thing.

Nothing is not simply absence.. it is not even that. It simply "is not". The state before there ever was a state to "Be.."

Ironic, then, it is that there is so much to learn from this perceived Nothingness. It is something I cannot mentally comprehend in it's entirety, due to it having no "entirety".. the more I try, the more I become frustrated. It teaches me to simply "let go"..

Nothing in Everything will tell me about Nothing. I mean that as it is written, and as it can be interpreted.

Mathematics reveal the Zeroes and Ones.. the coding behind what we see and don't. But Mathematics is not solely the study of numbers.. its moreso the language that is spoken to keep what Is as it is. Of course, there need be a listener for this code, in order for it to have any true meaning. Interesting how we are the ones we can say for certain are listening. I suppose that in itself gives purpose to existence, doesn't it?

Bah, but I am saying more than need be said. The point has been made.