Michael W Ford

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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Maxx on 06.07.09 16:42

My Biggest problem with M. Ford's system is this......as well as other systems of this type of Magic, Magick and the system of ritualism. The invocation method presents a flaw I have never seen a real answer to....it is this. When the spirit, being, entity, angel, demon, or whatever is called out or in, it is some form of atavism where the magician will see the being in the minds eye only......then begin to receive messages, directions, etc. from the being.

My problem is that I see, as well as the majority of mental professionals, 80% of the population worldwide is delusional from all the input of todays society that it brings.
That includes the percentage of makeup of the US population especially. (How about adults watching cartoons on tv) You can even see a section of that in evidence here on this board....in fact....many people see me nutty as a fruitcake anyway....smile. But I am a happy fruitcake.

The group that M. Ford heads is a group that is trying to operate with a very minimum of oversight on its members.
It is pointed out that a very, very minimum of direction or teaching is offered and the magician is mainly on his/her own. There is certainly merit as well as shortcomings associated with this effort.

Therefore, I ask, what type of truth do you see from those with mental baggage or a delusional mind set that are exposed to the very demons or angels that come forth. To a person that is delusionol, that being is as real as if it had actually been there. I say there is as much danger in this process if an angel is dealt with the entire time as with any demon that is met in the process. I believe the movie "A beautiful mind" is an example of this but this example is one that did not have that much negative potential as most of these do.

Also, take into consideration those that are watching a person that has the ability to actually have contact with the angel, demon, God, etc., and feel they are under presure to have actual contact with such a being.......how hard that pressure is to create a delusional being there.....and once it is produced, then what kind of messages to these delusional beings turn loose within the mind. This just keeps adding up more and more.......

Regards,

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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Victor on 06.07.09 17:41

The big problem of ego and delusions...

That has been a crucial issue in modern day occultism. That is also why Crowley insisted in initiatory techniques like the destruction of the ego. In many cases, those techniques aim at giving the initiate the tools to distinguish delusion from reality.
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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Victor on 06.07.09 17:48

As far as Mr. Ford joining us in this forum, I doubt he will have the time or will to do that. However, I believe having him joining us to comment on a post where people are discussing his past and possible childhood would not be a very respectful thing to do.
Still, having his presence in here for more serious discussions on magick, Left Hand Path and Vampirism would be a good thing...
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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Maxx on 06.07.09 19:25

Victor wrote:The big problem of ego and delusions...

That has been a crucial issue in modern day occultism. That is also why Crowley insisted in initiatory techniques like the destruction of the ego. In many cases, those techniques aim at giving the initiate the tools to distinguish delusion from reality.


Victor, of course that is correct. But do you REALLY think a person that is living their life in delusion daily, suddenly gets an interest in the occult and then utilizes the techniques aimed at helping the initiate distinguish delusion from reality will actually accomplish that? That is my whole point.

Of course, the abyss is located within the mind, as well as any heaven that one creates in the same fashion located there, so the dark magician is taught.....and should prove for himself/herself if that is correct, or not. As above, so below. Microcosm--Macrocosm, etc. It is very interesting to see how the stories of old actually all sound alike with just a name change.

But more and more, I am beginning to be convinced that the mind is capable of changing any problem and fixing it. over the years I see what the mind is really capable of......creation.......or destruction. it is all what is given Lifeforce.

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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Victor on 06.07.09 19:37

I would agree with you on that, Maxx. Also, it is not just the case of someone that lives with delusion in his daily life being able to successfully apply the techniques for destroying the ego or distinguishing between what his inner world creates and what is truly out there, I believe it is also an issue of Will.
Most of those people live happily in the comfort that their delusions are able to provide, the safety and confidence of those inner worlds shaped at the taste of their beliefs, hopes and ego cries. So those people avoid any form of knowledge, path, technique or tradition that may deny their delusions, that may shake their worlds or that may simply prove them wrong. They turn their backs to it, close their eyes and say to themselves "No, I am right, they are wrong. I know it".

And then we have those that are faced with their own lack of knowledge and limitations but they still confidently walk with their noses high in the air saying everyone is wrong and they "know it all". Those are the worst of all... but also the most amusing.
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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Maxx on 06.07.09 20:49

Victor wrote:
Most of those people live happily in the comfort that their delusions are able to provide, the safety and confidence of those inner worlds shaped at the taste of their beliefs, hopes and ego cries. So those people avoid any form of knowledge, path, technique or tradition that may deny their delusions, that may shake their worlds or that may simply prove them wrong.

Victor.....here is one of the sections I am talking about with the mind creating. The mind will even create a delusional escape or wall a room up for the person to live in contentment the entire life. This is where I say the 80% are living. If one begins to look at it, it is rather frightening.

This is also the technique of creating a multiple personality and inserting it within the mind to section off.

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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Ankhhape on 06.07.09 20:51

Are we still discussing M. Ford?
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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Jonathan on 06.07.09 21:09

Seems like the discussion drifted away. But still pretty interesting nonetheless.
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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Maxx on 06.07.09 21:18

This is an overview of those that are a part of M. Fords organization as well as Temple of Set (M. Aquino) and others of this type. Actually, any group whether magic or not. Sorry, I thought all could see that.

I received a mail from Empress saying she will do the deed when she returns from some meeting tonight, or do it in the morning.......no hurry.


Maxx Madd.............a parallel Universe
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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Ankhhape on 06.07.09 21:23

Maxx it is not an overview that I agree with.
What qualifies you to make these assumptions?
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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Maxx on 06.07.09 21:41

The short answer is my experience from inside the ToV especially, TOPH, and interaction with ToS. I often wondered why Regardie says that everyone should go through analysis from the Golden Dawn. This is why he was referring to it, I believe. He knew what the shape the human was in.

Now, tell me why you disagree.

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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Ankhhape on 06.07.09 21:53

Are you saying you believe Ford to be delusional?
Along with all occult oriented and non-occult oriented groups?
As well as the Aset Ka?

I'm sorry, I must be misunderstanding you, please elaborate?

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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Maxx on 06.07.09 22:13

That is not what I am saying at all. I am saying from my own experience I am finding that 80% of all are delusional, whether in the magic groups or not. Ask M. Ford what he thinks of his group or even M. Aquino about his group. You do not even have to ask George or Nemo in ToV about it. I spent 5 years there and I have seen Nemo make the same statement himself.

Again, only 20% are enlightened on this planet and capable of carrying on.

I am also saying that a God entered into a human body during the Egyptian reign and taught mankind the initiation
that enabled one to carry on and passed the secrets that are today proclaimed to be lost........yet are not. They are part of what you are describing here on the forum...You may know just a very small portion about them.....but yet you know nothing at all. It will be very interesting to see if it unveils as Maktub has stated.

I will also make the statement that a God introduced an addition that changed the DNA structure of mankind several times in the past to help mankind jump into the next phase of his/her development. That will tell us that we are being groomed for something very advanced in the near future.
This will come from the 20% or a very small number out of that percentage. This is why it is important to learn the astral technique of entering and traveling the other worlds.
Those ancient Egyptian Rulers know this and are still here in secret guiding this wisdom.

If only science would look to study consciousness instead of space, we would find our answers much quicker.

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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Phoenix on 06.07.09 22:28

Maxx wrote:
I will also make the statement that a God introduced an addition that changed the DNA structure of mankind several times in the past to help mankind jump into the next phase of his/her development. That will tell us that we are being groomed for something very advanced in the near future.
This will come from the 20% or a very small number out of that percentage. This is why it is important to learn the astral technique of entering and traveling the other worlds.

This has slipped off Ankhhape's inquiry on Michael Ford, but Maxx's above comment interested me. I have trouble believing in multiple "divine intervention" events - sounds too Western to me. I think evolutionary Darwinism is much more likely. With the braying masses of human donkeys out there, I question whether .02% not 20% of us would be groomed for anything.

That said, I concur with him that learning astral travel techniques is important. I am unaware of other methods to enter these higher planes and gain the knowledge found therein.
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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Talibah on 07.07.09 0:03

Victor wrote:
As far as Mr. Ford joining us in this forum, I doubt he will have the time or will to do that. However, I believe having him joining us to comment on a post where people are discussing his past and possible childhood would not be a very respectful thing to do.
Still, having his presence in here for more serious discussions on magick, Left Hand Path and Vampirism would be a good thing...

I think it pretty much goes without saying that Mr Ford would not want to come and discuss his personal life and childhood with strangers, and to be honest I wouldnt want that either. But indeed, some shared opinions on magick, ritualism, LHP and vampirism could be benficial not only to us here, but maybe also to him.
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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Syrianeh on 07.07.09 0:25

Maxx, how do you think one would try to avoid being delusional? I find that no matter how hard I try to clear off my mind from the clutter of fantasy, random spontaneous thinking and imaginings, I still find that most of my inner experiences are not to be taken for real.
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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Syrianeh on 07.07.09 0:26

I mean, Mad Maxx Very Happy
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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by empress2k on 07.07.09 1:28

Maxx wrote:that would be fine except he hardly can be contacted on his own group forum much less someone else's forum. Plus, I doubt if he would be that open with a group of strangers talking about his emotional makeup.......Think about it....LOL
Maxx

I absolutely agree with you here Maxx...lol Particularly considering all the issues I brought up with his Ego and not wanting to be the second in anything he does.
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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Talibah on 07.07.09 1:36

empress2k wrote:
I absolutely agree with you here Maxx...lol Particularly considering all the issues I brought up with his Ego and not wanting to be the second in anything he does.

But considering that Ego, and his disliking for being second, I know that if I were in his shoes, I'd want the chance to either confirm or contest those statements...
Of course, that's just what I'd do.
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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by empress2k on 07.07.09 2:34

Maxx wrote:I received a mail from Empress saying she will do the deed when she


Ok, here we go… Before I even opened your pictures, on my way back from my Full Moon ritual, I began to tune in and the word came to me in association with you was “Self-Punishment.” It seems like it has been an on-going theme in your life. I see you having tendency to greet any success you’d achieve with a sense of guilt.



You have an adventurous spirit and like to penetrate new places, worlds, cultures, traditions, yet you always prefer to remain an observer and a loner, while gaining an experience of it at the same time. You have an innate fear of people (I do not mean cowardness) and often times create a certain type of mask for yourself that would protect you from letting people come too close to you. You yearn for deeper connections yet that fear keeps you on your toes. It does run pretty deep, so I am not sure if it’s from this lifetime or previous ones. Often times those threats and attitudes are more perceived by you then are actual reality. In other words you might fear what is not there. I also feel that you have being taken advantage of many times in your life, most likely by women - which deepen the dent you've already had in you when it comes to trust.



You also have a protective quality and often will stand up for someone else if you sense injustice.



You are a very deep thinker and have a mind of a royal jester, where you like to deliver punches with class and a healthy doze of sarcasm. The jester quality is one of the other tools you use to set yourself apart from others and let them all know that you will sort of bite back. While you have been successful in some areas of your life activities, to some degree you feel you haven’t been given enough credit for something you feel you are really strong in and passionate about. I guess I can go back to the jester and say that often jesters were closet philosophers who for one reason or another could not become philosophers but were still in need of a public forum. So they would become jesters finding power in sarcasm.



Behind that bravado is a very shy and gentle man. Someone who has retained his child-like qualities and is willing to do whatever it takes to protect that child from the cruelty of a grown up world. You have a strong sense of humor, however you do not joke aimlessly, you see humor as an opportunity to say something meaningful between the lines and see if your listeners/readers will actually get it. When you see that they are able to read between your lines you feel more inclined to befriend them. Yet, you maintain the boundaries making sure that no one gets too close to you.



You are quite stubborn once you made up your mind about something it is virtually impossible to change your mind. You do not like large gatherings, they overwhelm you. I have a sense that no one really knows you, even those who consider themselves your friends – and there aren’t that many of those.



You have a great sense of discipline and will hardly ever allow yourself to take a leap without giving it much thought and analysis. I sense some time in a military, it could be a past life or this life but not for a very long time.



You are mindful of your physical being and take care of your body. I am sensing some issues with either liver or kidneys. I am also feeling some sort of congestion in your chest – maybe a breathing problem - but I do not see an athma. Something else is here, deeper in the chest - maybe a heart. Ok, I need to go to bed now. Looking forward to your feedback..Smile
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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Ankhhape on 07.07.09 5:55

Not to be a spoil sport or anything but . . . this is my thread on Michael W. Ford, could we please keep to the topic.

Empress, please open a new thread where you can do your Horoscope readings.
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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Maxx on 07.07.09 7:08

BTW Ankhhape, everything I was commenting on was reflecting M. Ford or his group and how it connected to other groups. Although the introduction of improvement of the DNA several times in the past was a comment connecting to the statement by Empress and then the comment by Maktub about the mind 5000 years ago was vaguely connected as it affects us all. So if the connection is a stretch for some people, you can blame it all on me.

Even the comments on me was supposed to be a test to discover how accurate Empress was on her scan of M. Ford.
I don't see it as a horoscope reading as I do not know anything about that. Empress does not know my birth date or any details about that.

But sorry the direction of your post did not go the way you would prefer. Again, all my fault. Even others did not see the connection I was making to Ford and even everyone as we are all connected to it. When you deal with emotions, how can you break it into sections.

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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Talibah on 07.07.09 7:35

True, the conversation has drifted from it's origins in places, but if you had not started it in the first place, Ankhhape, some of the excellent posts made thusfar would not have been made.
And considering Mr Fords work centers around ritual/ceremonial magick and chaos magick, I think the inclusion of an offshoot debate about delusion to be quite apt.

Perhaps you should ask more specific questions, and that way steer the conversation in the direction you originally hoped for Smile

Having said that, I think it would be fair to ask the question, is Mr Ford - and his counterparts - delusional?
Does he/they teach more than they know?
Has he/they truly managed to achieve complete seperation of the subconscious from the conscious in order to distinguish, without question, reality from delusion?

In order to achieve complete mastery of all types of Magick, one has to be able to identify a delusional mindset, and set it aside so that the concentration of Will is not over-shadowed by the white noise of mere imagination.
I agree with Maxx that a large percentage of mankind is not, and never will be capable of achieving what only a small minority can. But a good step forward is in recognising how much of a security blanket the delusional mind has become, and making moves to put it to rest.
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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Maxx on 07.07.09 9:21

I might give you some of M. Fords words from his book of Luciferian Witchcraft....Authors Note.....

The book of the Serpent is a grimoire which presents, refines and explores a modern appoach to the Adversary and Magick. In most recent times we have seen the shadow aspects of man and woman being pushed to the side, denied and hidden away. So-called Witches ignore their roots and foundations, placing credit in unbalanced perceptions of a Light and Fluffy world of blantant inconsistencies and little if any magical practice or power. Let me first state the intentions of the grimoire as it is here presented. The aim of the witch or sorcerer is to build a foundation of balance that is by material and spiritual aims. Do not ignore either as one cannot trully develop properly if consistency is not shown. Discipline applied with the triad of Will-Desire-Belief is essential in creating individual systems of sorcery. As a Luciferian, I decided early on based on my developing work that I could adhere to no single system, as my dreams guided me elsewhere. As i began practicing Magick based on what I perceived and appreciated from Aleister Crowley, Anton Szandor LaVey and Austin Osman Spare as well as the grimoire tradititons, my own formulation of the Witches Sabbat as a living initiatory model could be founded. The Adversary of Satan speaks to us in dreams, it is made viable in our blood and our individual lives. The challenges of Luciferian Witchcraft are many; it is a path where the practitioner becomes like Cain who leaves an outsted or solitary life outside the natural order of the world around us. The witch becomes different from all others and holds pride in that fact. The path challenges, continually making the self stronger, better and a little more knowledgable - Magickal power comes firstly within and through the actual application of practice.
This book is meant as an introduction and complete grimoire into the Left hand path of Witchcraft, the gnosis of the fallen angels and the very powers of both darkness and light. Please take care, when you first step within and cast the circle of Cain, be prepared to change, willing to dive the depths of your own created hell and form the world according to your will.
There are no words which I may write here to describe what will come of your journey through Luciferian Witchcraft, only that you shall awaken something which you may or may not be prepared to deal with. I take no responsibility for the misuse of this grimoire; I treat it a s a living Daemon Cunning Craft, to Persian Yatuvidah and Ahrimanic Magick, to Sethanic Adversarial rites-- the path grows and expands through darkness as a torch first seen in the dead of night.



So there you have his words. He indicates that his type of magick is of the magick of Seth or Set. He throughly believes in what he is doing and certainly is no slouch in what he brings to the forefront.

"This is not a path of prayer and supplication, but recognition of the sorcerer's own inherant powers. The forces of Darkness are called upon as a means of self-expression, self-empowerment, and self-deification. This is something common to many paths of genuine magick and sorcery, from the possession cults of Voodoo to the "god forms" of the Golden Dawn. The various Archetypes, or Mysteries, are called into focus through ritual."

I hope this will give you, Talibah, and those who know nothing of what we have been talking about, a little more info as to what Mr. Ford will advocate.


There is no comparison between this man and M. Bellinger. Both write books. All books are written to make a profit. But there is no comparison
as to the result and efforts taken to complete those books. M. Fords main person he was taken with, as I understand it, was Austin Osman Spare who has extensive writings out there you might want to look at.

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Re: Michael W Ford

Post by Ankhhape on 07.07.09 11:06

Maxx: I have almost all of Ford's works, thanks.
I was really just asking opinions about him from the members here.

I did start a thread on Luciferianism, perhaps you would like to add (or subtract?) to the commentary on that thread?

http://www.vampirismforum.com/religion-spirituality-f5/luciferianism-t294.htm
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