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Post by MysticLightShinethForth on 14.09.19 4:15

As you all know, I don't call myself a vampire... but I had some interesting thought here: the ability to mentally shift to the psychological stance and feeling of any given animal - being empowered by the animal archetype in some psychological sense, manifested behaviours and qualities or characteristics - is it something that vampires have? I certainly do, although not calling myself a vampire, and have been exploring it in the past. Now I was reminded and am coming back to it. Current project is to take on the mindset of a snake. Reminds me almost of totem animals although not exactly perhaps.
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Post by Ramla-Meryt on 14.09.19 5:44

The use of spirits - be they animal or otherwise - for empowerment is hardly new so I would imagine that while it may not be a trait innate in vampires, it can be a trait learned just like any other.

I do not recall coming across animal and vampire associations during my revenant literature search. Mesopotamia has vampiric beings with animal features, as does Ancient Greece. While these do not necessarily indicate a direct association, taking on the qualities or being imbued with them seems to be present.

Straying from the mythology side of things, I think that it is definitely feasible. Invoking and being empowered by animal spirits is, as you say, hardly new after all.
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Post by MysticLightShinethForth on 15.09.19 10:15

Great reply!

It's an interesting subject, particularly to the vampiric side of things because, I'd believe, there are forms of empowerment in the form of mighty beasts under a vampiric path, potentially perhaps, or in some archetypal or internally psychological, maybe even magickal, way. The Book of Orion in one of the Sebayts - the Sebayt of Khufu - even mention a spell or an utterance that captivates my attention for inquiry, part of which says: "I shall become the lion, the hawk and the serpent". They're all quite possibly vampiric archetypes in a primordial sense - and especially when combined in a chimerical way it renders its power. It's also interesting to note another quote from Luis Marques' Twitter in 2013, 15th of March (for reference): "The awakened vampire is a spiritual chimera, conquering light and mastering darkness between worlds. Immortal spirit within mortal shell. ☥" It seems to me, when drawing a connection, to tie into the aforementioned subject matter to a certain extent with the notion of a chimerical combination between vampirically archetypal animals. A recurring theme is also having depicted Asetian Elders, as they certainly appear to have been, like Sekhmet, Bastet, etc., with animal heads on their statues or in animal forms; these two in particular with the former having a lionness head and human form and the second a feline form. I think it's an interesting facet or aspect to explore within vampirism, though - the archetypal relationship between animal form and living vampire...

Another thought: the archetypal imagery and associations of the Vampire with the Werewolf in Slavic lore is quite interesting, too, and seems to indicate some hidden mystery, namely in the form of Varcolac. I haven't studied it enough. Do you know anything about it, Ramla-Meryt?
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Post by Ramla-Meryt on 15.09.19 10:40

MysticLightShinethForth wrote:Great reply!

It's an interesting subject, particularly to the vampiric side of things because, I'd believe, there are forms of empowerment in the form of mighty beasts under a vampiric path, potentially perhaps, or in some archetypal or internally psychological, maybe even magickal, way. The Book of Orion in one of the Sebayts - the Sebayt of Khufu - even mention a spell or an utterance that captivates my attention for inquiry, part of which says: "I shall become the lion, the hawk and the serpent". They're all quite possibly vampiric archetypes in a primordial sense - and especially when combined in a chimerical way it renders its power. It's also interesting to note another quote from Luis Marques' Twitter in 2013, 15th of March (for reference): "The awakened vampire is a spiritual chimera, conquering light and mastering darkness between worlds. Immortal spirit within mortal shell. ☥" It seems to me, when drawing a connection, to tie into the aforementioned subject matter to a certain extent with the notion of a chimerical combination between vampirically archetypal animals. A recurring theme is also having depicted Asetian Elders, as they certainly appear to have been, like Sekhmet, Bastet, etc., with animal heads on their statues or in animal forms; these two in particular with the former having a lionness head and human form and the second a feline form. I think it's an interesting facet or aspect to explore within vampirism, though - the archetypal relationship between animal form and living vampire...

Another thought: the archetypal imagery and associations of the Vampire with the Werewolf in Slavic lore is quite interesting, too, and seems to indicate some hidden mystery, namely in the form of Varcolac. I haven't studied it enough. Do you know anything about it, Ramla-Meryt?

Excluse me, nerd glee moment. I looked into vampire mythology for my postgraduate dissertation.

So, re-poking at things, the combination of vampires and werewolves in the varcolac wasn't long-standing.

> The word vrykolakas is derived from the Slavic word vǎrkolak. The term is attested in other South Slavic languages such as Serbian vukodlak, ultimately derived from Proto-Slavic vьlkolakъ, see Polish wilkołak, and cognates can be found in other languages such as Lithuanian vilkolakis and Romanian vârcolac. The term is a compound word derived from вълк (vâlk)/вук (vuk), meaning "wolf" and dlaka, meaning "(strand of) hair" (i.e. having the hair, or fur, of a wolf), and originally meant "werewolf" (it still has that meaning in the modern Slavic languages, and a similar one in Romanian: see vârcolac). It is also noteworthy that in the eighteenth century story Vrykolokas by Pitton de Tournefort, he refers to the revenant as a "werewolf" (loups-garous) which may have also been translated as bug-bears, a strange word that has nothing to do with bugs nor bears, but is related to the word bogey, which means spook, spirit, hobgoblin, etc.[1] However, the same word (in the form vukodlak) has come to be used in the sense of "vampire" in the folklore of Croatia , Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Montenegro (while the term "vampir" is more common in Eastern Serbia, and in Bulgaria). Apparently, the two concepts have become mixed.[2] Even in Bulgaria, original folklore generally describes the vârkolak as a sub-species of the vampire without any wolf-like features.[3]

- https://ro.wiktionary.org/wiki/v%C3%A2rcolac [will require translating]

- Some associate it with the Strigoi figure and the variations therein whereas some associate it with a werewolf. It seems to be one of those myths where there are variations per area.

Related, found while looking for sources:
https://popular-archaeology.com/article/walking-dead-and-vengeful-spirits/
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Post by Jonathan on 15.09.19 11:53

Good information. I just wanted to add that sometimes what we study as vampires today, in contemporary culture and myth, ends up being quite different than its original descriptions in Slavic mythology. The word vampire almost became an umbrella term for a myriad of distinctive concepts that appear in various cultures and different time periods. For example there is no known word for vampires ancient Egyptian, as the concept is much more modern and originated in Europe, however we do have many elements in Egyptian mythology that our modern minds can identify as vampiric in nature. Same is true for certain legends in Mesopotamia and Babylonian demonology. It kind of gets confusing when we start calling them all vampires but at the same time if we were strict in terms of etymology we should only call vampires to the undead beasts of Slavic and Romanian lore but those are hardly the cases we describe as vampires in a modern interpretation of esoteric vampirism. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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Post by Ramla-Meryt on 15.09.19 11:58

Jonathan wrote:Good information. I just wanted to add that sometimes what we study as vampires today, in contemporary culture and myth, ends up being quite different than its original descriptions in Slavic mythology. The word vampire almost became an umbrella term for a myriad of distinctive concepts that appear in various cultures and different time periods. For example there is no known word for vampires ancient Egyptian, as the concept is much more modern and originated in Europe, however we do have many elements in Egyptian mythology that our modern minds can identify as vampiric in nature. Same is true for certain legends in Mesopotamia and Babylonian demonology. It kind of gets confusing when we start calling them all vampires but at the same time if we were strict in terms of etymology we should only call vampires to the undead beasts of Slavic and Romanian lore but those are hardly the cases we describe as vampires in a modern interpretation of esoteric vampirism. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Definitely agreed.

It is like how the concept of 'revenan(t)s' in Medieval literature were quite akin to what modern society considers a classical 'vampire' save for a few regional variations but the word 'vampire' itself had not yet crossed over the shores from mainland Europe at that point.

I agree also on the distinction between the mythological presentations of vampirism and esoteric vampirism. The Strigoaică or the Strigoi viu are something that I plan on poking into as there is at least a mention of magic within that lore/concept as a whole compared to say, the revenants who are more based off religion being the cause.
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Post by Rhea Kaye on 16.09.19 19:35

I find the parallels between Asetians and their Lineage's animal representation to be quite interesting.
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Post by MysticLightShinethForth on 18.09.19 8:14

Yes, they are very symbolic. I'm not sure if they're as much archetypal as symbolical but I could be very wrong here. What do you think? By symbolical I mean that they convey an inner meaning that matches the Lineage, metaphorically. But with archetypal I mean something that can be connected with on some conscious or unconscious level, explored psychologically and potentially in magick, and drawn empowerment from. Maybe it carries some elements of archetype but I'm not sure so that's why I'm looking for other opinions. Smile
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Post by Rhea Kaye on 18.09.19 8:23

Well, I'd say both. 
The Serpents for example. We can find that poor eyesight and a tendency toward respiratory issues are common physical problems among them, which can also easily be found in the actual animal. 

I am unsure off the top of my head how this would translate to Scarabs and Scorpions, in terms of physical ailments that parallel the animal.
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Post by MysticLightShinethForth on 18.09.19 10:30

Interesting. Yes, I see your point. There's certainly the element in Scorpions of, for example, Deadly Poison. Perhaps the Deadly Poison is more common in that Lineage than in others? Then we've also got the fluid nature of the Scarabs which song of transformation echoes the scarab beetle rolling its ball of dung but with the seed of new life as the eggs that hatch therefrom, also symbolized by Khepri which I think is very closely linked to Scarabs in particular but which is present in all, of course.

I also did some reading on the nature of scorpions as I'm typing this reply. Seems, to my surprise - as I haven't studied much of entomology, or rather arachnology - that scorpions are in fact part of the spider family, arachnids. I wonder how that detail might tie into all of this.

Also, here's an interesting small article about scorpions and their use of defense mechanisms: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/11/131113182600.htm
The use of pincers or stingers for defensive reasons... sounds, by a stretch of the imagination, archetypically related to how Scorpions can manipulate shields even in offensive purposes. Interesting to note as well, however, is that scorpions have got a relatively tough or hard exoskeleton, which I don't know if that ties into a reason for its symbology being adopted by the particular Lineage for its shielding functions, but even then it doesn't seem as if scorpions rely directly upon that for its guaranteed protection. According to the article the two strongest defensive mechanisms are the pincers or the stingers but I don't know about the exoskeleton... [...] But further small research does tell me that scorpions exoskeleton also helps quite significantly with "providing exceptional resistance to water loss, which is critical to the survival of these arachnids in arid environments they often inhabit", according and quoted from to this article here: https://www.scorpsweep.com/facts/ Maybe that would tie into the aspect of a lesser need to feed for Scorpions, and their grounded stability, in comparison to other Lineages, drawing quite symbolically perfect upon the creature that stands for the animal sigil of their Lineage and there's also much more that can potentially tie into it as we read in the Asetian Bible regarding the Scorpion Lineage such as their greater ability for survival under harsher conditions I believe (?).
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Post by A.Nightside on 01.10.19 16:47

Read most of the OP, sorry for not reading the rest.
Sounds totemic or power animal-esque to me.

I think anyone can embody an archetype. I think Vampires especially may have a sort of animalistic nature, especially predatory, and in that might relate some with animals. ... but I don't think it's Vampire-specific, no.

*going back up to read the rest of hte thread*
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