Exploration of the Underworld in Shamanism and Witchcraft

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Post by MysticLightShinethForth on 06.07.20 13:01

I was wondering if anyone had any ingoing experience with this subject? I don't have a lot of factual, historical, mythological or folkloric knowledge upon this, however, but I do have a certain experience with it and like to dwell into these areas of the mind. It is the exploration and acceptance of the darkest dungeons of the mind in a way where, through that acceptance, you are able to explore, heal and retrieve various fragmented pieces of yourself, or just repressed stuff in the mind. It's a thorough process of shadow work which entails not just integration, wholeness and completion but also the visiting of other realms, often most commonly referred to as the Underworld, from within your own inner microcosm. However, I strongly suspect there to be a macro-cosmic, or external, aspect to this as well, being tied to astral projection and out of body experience since, through my own explorations, I've been able to intuit vague glimpses of an external place of spirits and beings residing in this shadowy landscape of infernal warmth. Here are some quotes I've written upon the subject from my own explorations, the former coming from the past and the latter from present times. The former holds a more metaphorically cryptic meaning, which can be understood symbolically, with the wind symbolizing breath but in a relative sense and not entire stillness of course (as you still need to breathe), or the movements of the mind, seeing as these are interrelated and one affects the other, the night and darkness symbolizing the moving into inner and darker recesses of mind with the caverns being the very depths of going deeper into it.

"I travel in obscure darkness
in a wind-still night
into caverns leading to the Underworld.

I behold the flames of living night, the dark Queen of immortality."

“Fly the Night of dark inner knowingness. The Underworld is a promising place of deepest healing and integration, shadowy but warm and welcoming to those whose minds are not afraid of the unknown and whose balance prevails against the odds of monsters...”
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Post by PLM on 12.07.20 23:27

Perhaps the author Mark Alan Smith might aid you.

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Post by MysticLightShinethForth on 13.07.20 5:46

Perhaps, perhaps. I've looked briefly into his works. What's your opinion of them? Have you worked with that system?
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Post by PLM on 13.07.20 17:08

I find that the teachings are valid. I am still working within the Trident. As a fact, I have been working with this system for years now and it has been a wonderful source of growth for me. With anything, should one find something within the material that goes against their natures....change up the rituals to cater to your comfort zones. I did that with Mr. Smiths material and have had great success.


It is my opinion that as one grows in the occult....one gets to know oneself on a much deeper level and doors begin to open. I am sure that there are those here that have studied the Aset Ka with great dedication and can testify to what I have just stated here in this paragraph.

I hope I have helped.

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Post by MysticLightShinethForth on 13.07.20 17:13

I see, yes, that's a good response.
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Post by Jonathan on 13.07.20 17:30

I've heard of people using the Trident grimoires as gateways into the Asetian current, discarding the Atlantean dogma part of primal craft and adapting it to a higher vibration. Haven't tried it myself but I suggest it to be done with some experience and knowledge, just be careful that the entities and demons safeguarding Asetianism are far more dangerous, in a permanent way, than those in primal craft. One may get seriously messed up without the right protective magick and an honest humble mind.
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Post by PLM on 13.07.20 18:27

Good to see that you and I are in agreement with honest intent. Any path of the occult can mess one up in a sever fashion, including Christianity.

A sound mind and the walk of respect is a necessity as those that are called upon can see any and all hidden agendas.

You stated you yourself have never traveled the road but took another words as true. I personally prefer the test everything method myself. For a Christian would tell another that there is none more powerful than Jesus. What one finds power in is their power. There is always someone out there that is more powerful....that is in the abilities to maneuver energy.

I am glad you find power within the Asetian current. May you always find blessing in that.

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Post by Maxx on 13.07.20 18:40

You are exactly right in your mention that Christianity is an occult group. Many never think of it in that way. It does have many different levels and not every adherent is aware of that fact.
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Post by Jonathan on 14.07.20 4:14

PLM wrote:You stated you yourself have never traveled the road but took another words as true.  I personally prefer the test everything method myself.  For a Christian would tell another that there is none more powerful than Jesus.  What one finds power in is their power.  There is always someone out there that is more powerful....that is in the abilities to maneuver energy.

I don't take people's words for granted blindly but at this point I'm familiar with those who are serious and masterful in their arts as well as those that aren't. We are not meant to walk every single path and tradition in the world as there is no time in a single lifetime, so we must take into account the experiences and expertise of others as well, especially those also on the Asetian road of the higher mysteries.
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Post by PLM on 14.07.20 16:35

Jonathon, I agree with your statement. However, about 10 or so years ago I enter into an arrangement with other strangers in which we were a sort of control group dealing with rituals of the occult. This agreement lasted 6 or 7 months. Each participant held a background in the occult and we were scattered around the world. The background knowledge was a requirement. Each week we were emailed a ritual to do every day for a week. At the end of the week we sent in our experiences.

Everyone had a set of different experiences. Some shared similar experiences, where as others were vastly different. The gal in Poland that was doing this study for the purpose of a book she was writing. I honestly, don't even know if it was published, yet when we were sent a report of the weeks of findings we all, for the most part, were successful just in different degrees.

I often wonder if our differences came from interpretation of the material provided. It might have come from the background in which we were raised. Yet, I, like the rest of the group put our beliefs and disbeliefs aside for the research.

I thought you might find that interesting. I know I did. I look forward to more communication with you.

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Post by Jonathan on 14.07.20 17:07

That is interesting. Can you find if that study ever got published so that I may look into it?
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Post by PLM on 14.07.20 18:25

Let me do some research and see if I can not locate it.

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Post by PLM on 15.07.20 7:42

Ok Jonathon,

This was done through the Temple of Ascending Flame. Author is Asenath Mason and it was published. I believe it was the Rites of Lucifer but it very well could be the book Awakening Lucifer.

The rituals done were on the Masks of Lucifer. So indeed, this is Luciferian based combined with the Atlantian current. She, at one time, held the position of gatekeeper to the Temple of Lucifer. From my memory, during that time, she had a falling out with Mark Smith. Not sure what it was over but he took her title from her as gatekeeper.

MysticlightShinesForth might even find some use in looking at the Mask of Lucifer as this does enter into a deep unlocking of the mind. Just a thought concerning the original post.

There are many ways of unlocking the mind so that a deeper look into any of the mysteries can occur. I have never limited myself in that area. So in other words, I am not opposed to borrowing from other areas of the occult in order to step forward in my current studies. Jonathon, that is a personal. So, in other words, no one needs to agree with my thoughts on the subject.

As far as the study that was done for the production of a book. That is about all I can tell you. It has been awhile and I certainly had to jerk that memory forward to find this little bit of information for you. I was surprised to find that it actually was published.




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Post by Naoom on 15.07.20 9:01

There is actually a lot of evidence to prove that the ToAF has plagiarized a lot of things from Primal Craft very blatantly. What they came up with as in the case of that book, is a series of rituals that are false by nature, and if someone managed to open the gateways through those, it would bring lots of very serious trouble since not only it doesn't give any preparation, but the rituals themselves are diluted information mixed with their own thoughtforms. I'd advise anyone looking to work with the system to do a simple Google search and see what I am talking about. Mark has excommunicated them, and he is the one who gave them his books in PDF in the first place, but regretted the decision.
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Post by Maxx on 15.07.20 9:02

Rites of Lucifer.
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Post by Maxx on 15.07.20 9:04

Naoom, there are other things behind the scenes that you are not relating or are not aware of. There is more than one side to this story.
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Post by Naoom on 15.07.20 9:08

Maxx wrote:Naoom, there are other things behind the scenes that you are not relating or are not aware of.  There is more than one side to this story.

That is understandable, I am sorry if I seemed neglecting of it but I had considered working with the group before seeing all of this. On the surface it seems like anything that is connected to that author and BALG, even if the group doesn't request money but uses it to promote their books and all. I would like to see the other side of the story to come to a better perspective.
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Post by Maxx on 15.07.20 9:25

Naoom, do you recall how you fell hook, line and sinker for what Nemo was telling you? Sometime a little later you discovered that his framework and his proclamations were not exactly the words of the universe written in vampire lore? In order words, one might consider using the word liar and making false statements to advance his financial situation.

All I am saying, is that you are not aware of the entire story in this case as well. But consider there are always two sides to every story.
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Post by Naoom on 15.07.20 9:31

That was a long time ago and I don't see why you bring it up, I said I am open to hearing other opinions but I stated mine. I was talking specifically about the validity of that group and system.
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Post by Maxx on 15.07.20 9:35

Also, I need to add your wording using excommunicated is a total falsehood.  "He" cannot excommunicate anyone as the current is not owned by Mark in any form or fashion or any sense of the imagination.  The Spirit Beings are in total control of the energy and any power given.  Mark owns none of that.  No physical being has anything to do with this.  The same process is seen in the Works of Koetting who owns none of any power of other dimensions or even Nemo or his son Michael or Michael Ford or any of the others.  Do not make the mistake of giving these individuals any so called God powers cause it will never happen.  I do not care how strong the charisma they may use to influence the unsuspecting.
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Post by Jonathan on 15.07.20 9:35

PLM, the feedback that I get from people who worked with Mark Alan Smith is that he is strongly focused on holding control and that others follow his exact words in a way that it's almost cultish. Like he doesn't tolerate different views or people disagreeing with him. Do you know if any of this is true?

Actually Maxx this question goes out to you as well.
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Post by Maxx on 15.07.20 9:37

I bring it up because you are not the only one this happens to. We have all fallen short. All of us and it is a learning process for everyone of us. Do not think you are being singled out as the only one on earth this has happened to.
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Post by Jonathan on 15.07.20 9:38

Maxx wrote:Also, I need to add your wording using excommunicated is a total falsehood.  "He" cannot excommunicate anyone as the current is not owned by Mark in any form or fashion or any sense of the imagination.  The Spirit Beings are in total control of the energy and any power given.  Mark owns none of that.  No physical being has anything to do with this.  The same process is seen in the Works of Koetting who owns none of any power of other dimensions or even Nemo or his son Michael or Michael Ford or any of the others.  Do not make the mistake of giving these individuals any so called God powers cause it will never happen.  I do not care how strong the charisma they may use to influence the unsuspecting.

That’s what I was thinking about actually, how can he excommunicate someone from a magickal current because they have plagiarized him? It just doesn’t work that way. The problem that I have with this sort of people, same with Koetting, is that suddenly they think they own the current and they are the only true channel to the beings. That's actually a fraudulent concept. It rings more of insecurity than power.
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Post by Maxx on 15.07.20 9:38

I think I answered that in my reply to Naoom. It is nothing but the same process over again.
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Post by Maxx on 15.07.20 9:43

there was no plagiarism as he presented it. She did the illustrations for the first, or second book or combination and expected to be paid for it. Mark said she needed to donate it to the cause. lol. Disagreement. So she was excommunicated????? lol.
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