God or Gatekeeper of the Underworld

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Post by Nightshade on 18.08.20 11:57

Do you see Anubis as the god of death and the underworld or as the gatekeeper of the underworld into the realms of death? I believe it's an important distinction.

I know that he is sometimes described as the god of the underworld but isn't the underworld and the duat both the realm of the dead? If so then that realm is ruled by Aset and Osiris not Anubis, so it would make more sense for him to be a guide and gatekeeper of death than an actual ruler of the underworld.
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Post by Naoom on 18.08.20 12:22

This is a very interesting subject. In my opinion he is more of a gatekeeper like you described, but that is only based on my experience and I want to look more into the actual reasoning behind each view. I had an experience when I did a ritual from Primal Craft before knowing or having read the books. At the gates of the abyss I saw Anubis instead of Cerberus and I saw a vision of the heart against the feather. I think Anubis is more of a stellar or higher form of the Gatekeeper of the Abyss. I associate him more with the Divine aspect than the infernal one for that reason. I am curious to know what your opinion is about this though as I hadn't read anything about this before but I wanted to find out more.
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Post by Nightshade on 18.08.20 12:32

Naoom wrote:This is a very interesting subject. In my opinion he is more of a gatekeeper like you described, but that is only based on my experience and I want to look more into the actual reasoning behind each view. I had an experience when I did a ritual from Primal Craft before knowing or having read the books. At the gates of the abyss I saw Anubis instead of Cerberus and I saw a vision of the heart against the feather. I think Anubis is more of a stellar or higher form of the Gatekeeper of the Abyss. I associate him more with the Divine aspect than the infernal one for that reason. I am curious to know what your opinion is about this though as I hadn't read anything about this before but I wanted to find out more.

Your experience seems fascinating and I think it makes sense. I have often thought of Cerberus as the infernal reflection of that stellar gate, which could very well be Anubis upon the higher divine planes. It would align with what I was saying about Anubis being the gatekeeper of those realms, where he can be a protective guide or a dangerous demon unleashing the dogs upon your soul.
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Post by Maxx on 18.08.20 12:41

Gatekeeper.  I have reasons for that but may I bring up a point in this area?

When you pass over, yourself, who do you expect to meet? And what will be their appearance and how will you be expecting what you are meeting?

Will you meet Anubis, Aset, Osiris, and will the structure you are seeing appear as what is described in those texts?

Will you be meeting with others that more conform to your present-day lifestyle or will your meeting be a compilation of all of your lives lived previously?  I began looking at your question approx 2 years ago with some of the individual military personnel that followed Seti I and became interested in how this question applies.
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Post by Nightshade on 18.08.20 13:18

So you agree with the gatekeeper view. As for your question I don’t think that what we experience after death becomes conditioned by what we read in life and the mythologies we chose to study.

Maxx, just one added point that I wish to make clear, since I’ve seen your comments to Jonathan on the other thread where you allude right after my own comment that I came here because he asked people to come defend him. That is a lie. I haven’t spoken with Jonathan in a while and no one asked me to come here, nor do I believe that someone like Jonathan needs anyone defending him. Your comment was insulting to imply that I come here by request, and since it was a lie I wanted to make that clear to everyone else. Just making this necessary remark but I don’t wish to engage with the drama especially as I noticed that the admins have rightfully locked that thread.
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Post by Maxx on 18.08.20 14:06

For you and to you.  When I made that statement I did not mention you by name nor did I have you in mind as you do not show up by posting very often. If you can think in those terms it is obvious I did not mean you.  So rest easy as I was not implicating you. I answered your post before Sir Galahad ever poked in.  There are others here that work in tandem with him but that is for another time and other posts and not here.

"So you agree with the gatekeeper view. As for your question I don’t think that what we experience after death becomes conditioned by what we read in life and the mythologies we chose to study."

My thought on that is yes and maybe no.  What we believe in our consciousness  should have a direct affect on what level of dimension we are instantly finding ourselves after passing over.  What so many here are thinking in terms of is looking at the Egyptian Gods, etc and viewing something like the example you and I are speaking of.  One would assume that the terrain one finds themselves in at passing over now would not be the same view as the Egyptians we speak of and study in books, where they are expecting to meet Anubis In Egyptian robes and dress.  That is my point.

The view and expectations will continually be changing.  So thinking in those terms, how accurate can one expect the writings of ancient Egypt and the afterlife, how meaningful should they really be as to what will be confronted?  You have people here and the other place appearing to worship the Egyptian Gods and Goddesses to the point they serve them now and expect to be rewarded by them now and ever after just as if they were in the court of the Pharaoh.  That is a dark question no one ever brings up.  The mind is a strange place to live.

Many I have talked with expect to see Jesus after death and they go on for a while after they have died and never have the meeting.  Some then move on after realization of what they have experienced while they were living and what they were finding, their belief system had developed their outlook.  Saying what we believe is important because you will be seeing exactly what you are expecting upon passing over until an adjustment is made.
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Post by Nightshade on 18.08.20 14:16

I was the only one who commented there right before your post so the timing was really weird. Nothing personal but it did seem directed at me.

What you're saying is in line with what I said that what we study doesn't truly condition what really is there in the afterlife but only influences preconceived illusions within the first stage of soul detachment.
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Post by Maxx on 18.08.20 14:34

within the first stage of soul detachment.....  
is the breakout point we agree on.  

So what my thoughts were taking me into is that all the material that everyone is making a big to do about is not that important at all....books on how we must develop attributes suggested like Ros or Aset Ka (and some here have turned these into a type of Religion) or Jesus, Muhammed,etc., regardless of those 3000BC beliefs and what they believed about their religion...and what we believe now based on our religion....   is really of not much importance.  We all will regress or advance into the level of dimension our soul has developed over lifetimes to vibrate within.  So every new religion that comes along has no other influence than just to condition us for experiences till the celebration of "passover".  LOL.
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Post by Maxx on 18.08.20 14:36

and you being the only other to post on that.....is because everyone was just going to watch as everyone knows he and I are not on the same path....lol. Putting it nicely.
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Post by Jonathan on 18.08.20 15:19

Nightshade wrote:So you agree with the gatekeeper view. As for your question I don’t think that what we experience after death becomes conditioned by what we read in life and the mythologies we chose to study.

Maxx, just one added point that I wish to make clear, since I’ve seen your comments to Jonathan on the other thread where you allude right after my own comment that I came here because he asked people to come defend him. That is a lie. I haven’t spoken with Jonathan in a while and no one asked me to come here, nor do I believe that someone like Jonathan needs anyone defending him. Your comment was insulting to imply that I come here by request, and since it was a lie I wanted to make that clear to everyone else. Just making this necessary remark but I don’t wish to engage with the drama especially as I noticed that the admins have rightfully locked that thread.

Nightshade, thank you for making that clear and exposing the truth of the matter. It seems like certain “spirits” failed yet again.

Now back to what really matters as this is a good thread, so thank you for opening it. My view is similar to yours and Naoom’s as well, since I see Anubis as the power that stands between the Ways, a Gatekeeper of Death. He is the darkness before the void.
This connection with the dead also makes sense from an Asetian perspective in how Anubians were associated with death, not only as powerful necromancers and sorcerers adept at wielding the forces of death but also as skilled assassins!
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Post by Maxx on 18.08.20 15:43

couldn't resist knocking on the door....lol. but they do have a holiday greeting coming up for you specially. Count on it.
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Post by Jonathan on 18.08.20 15:48

Maxx wrote:couldn't resist knocking on the door....lol.  but they do have a holiday greeting coming up for you specially. Count on it.

That will actually be a great way for everyone to see how fake your "spirits" are if nothing happens to me. Since I'm very much convinced that your "spirits" are as harmless as a fly. Lets wait and see. Smile

Couldn't be less worried...
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Post by Maxx on 18.08.20 15:59

great for sure. I have a verified record from an attorney in South Africa. Results with paid out checks for families and companies. 10 in ER in hosp. 2 in reg room. One incident. 3 dead in mine explosion, and one leg cut off in chain saw accident. Speak all you like but my results speak for themselves. All within a 3 week period. Run your mouth as long as you want to, but why come in here and mess up her post question like you always do with your crap. Just leave it all alone and I will do the same with you.
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Post by Jonathan on 18.08.20 16:06

So many words for so little action. Your type, those who talk too much, are always the ones with little power and no results.

But we'll see. Enough talking about it. You did make the threat so now man up and let everyone be able to see your mighty power. I will be waiting for your "spirits". lol
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Post by Maxx on 18.08.20 16:13

I would expect your reply to be exactly in that vein. Not an issue or problem.

Now, do we have an agreement here in the open for all to witness, that there will be no more jabs or black remarks messing up threads for now??? Admin will not have to worry about covering for you as she will not have to be ever watchful on the next happenings.
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Post by Jonathan on 18.08.20 16:18

I agree to that, no more jabs, but you should for once be capable of something or just go home. For too long that you have been acting like every fraud out there, full of claims and zero facts. That's dishonest. So if I have absolutely no power as yourself stated the "spirits" confirmed to you for everyone to see, it should be easy to take down this helpless and powerless poor little occultist. So, go ahead...

But let me guess. Nothing will happen. As always with you.
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Post by Glasswalker on 19.08.20 2:05

This is an interesting subject and I would like to share my thoughts on the matter. Anpu has been a near permanent fixture in this existence and I do enjoy discussing matters related to the individual being in question.

Although coming into contact with the "standard" modern day associations regarding him and the associated pantheon, it became quite clear early on in my explorations that attributing singular goals or functions to beings that are inevitably multifaceted beyond most consideration is a little strange. It works in hierarchical systems (such as narratives regarding "The world works this way because"), but never seems to match up to reality. "Functionality" itself is never a singular road, regardless of what kind of functionality is in question, because all things require interaction with, or are built from, additional frameworks in our existence. In this respect, Anpu might serve some highly specific functions in regards to this thread's interest, but certainly it is not all such a being would engage in. Or be limited to. In that light, I don't view him as either archetype. I individually view the archetype being a result of people's desire to fit the forces at work into neat little boxes with clear boundaries between each box. It is not to say that they are invalid, but I would always suggest to look at the reasoning for why one draws a specific conclusion rather than the implications of said conclusion. Due to this line of thought, I view him as just a being. A being that likely has skill sets in relation to his overall make up as an entity (energy type and nature), but certainly does engage in a variety of work that exceed the boundaries of such frameworks.

I would like to discuss my own individual experiences with the being like Naoom. I should also preface and say that this is, of course, involving my own individual gnosis. There is no way to be free of such a thing, unfortunately. It may be slightly redundant to say such, but I am typically a redundant creature on occasion ;p.

In my own personal endeavors involving Anpu, the setting is always the same. There is a dome in an abyss (an area devoid of all things) and inside that dome is a view into the universe. So I suspect the structure exists inside an artificial local for the sake obfuscation. I would also accidentally dreamwalk and end up in this location for a large majority of my childhood, prior to my awakening. The journeys continued as I got older and more aware. In this dome, Anpu is always managing the "stars", but I suspect the imagery of "stars" against the universe is a way of interpreting individual beings or their individual pathways related to the framework of Fate. There was never any talking, or interaction, other than the place existed as sort of a "sanctuary" where I was always allowed space and silence. No matter how old I am, and what changes in my life, I always feel incredibly child-like in that space. I would not look at such as a negative thing.

Not very exciting, I suppose. That's been something I had been doing subconsciously is my youth and something I continued to pursue in my older years. I sit in silence and watch them move the "stars".

I have a variety of speculations, of course, as to what the imagery means, but it would potentially be diverting the thread far from its intended course.

I think humans have always been prone to trying to fit incredibly complex forces (and beings) into easily digestible frameworks, and that these frameworks adapt and change overtime. Which speaks not to the potential nature of the beings. Something I believe Maxx talked about as well. The ideas we know today inevitably were much different during the periods in which human beings were actively interacting with Anpu. Always, ultimately, being filtered through the human mode and constructed in ways that "made sense" at the time in combination with all other available knowledge.
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Post by Nightshade on 19.08.20 3:35

Jonathan wrote:Now back to what really matters as this is a good thread, so thank you for opening it. My view is similar to yours and Naoom’s as well, since I see Anubis as the power that stands between the Ways, a Gatekeeper of Death. He is the darkness before the void.
This connection with the dead also makes sense from an Asetian perspective in how Anubians were associated with death, not only as powerful necromancers and sorcerers adept at wielding the forces of death but also as skilled assassins!

Good words. In line with my explorations as well.
The details of necromancy and unseen assassins in a context of Asetian history are certainly worthy of note.

Maxx wrote:couldn't resist knocking on the door....lol.  but they do have a holiday greeting coming up for you specially. Count on it.

Maxx, threats aren’t pretty and it doesn’t suit you. Not to mention that they are a sign of inability. People capable don’t go around writing about it in public forums. You should have learned this by now.

Glasswalker wrote:Although coming into contact with the "standard" modern day associations regarding him and the associated pantheon, it became quite clear early on in my explorations that attributing singular goals or functions to beings that are inevitably multifaceted beyond most consideration is a little strange. It works in hierarchical systems (such as narratives regarding "The world works this way because"), but never seems to match up to reality. "Functionality" itself is never a singular road, regardless of what kind of functionality is in question, because all things require interaction with, or are built from, additional frameworks in our existence. In this respect, Anpu might serve some highly specific functions in regards to this thread's interest, but certainly it is not all such a being would engage in. Or be limited to. In that light, I don't view him as either archetype. I individually view the archetype being a result of people's desire to fit the forces at work into neat little boxes with clear boundaries between each box. It is not to say that they are invalid, but I would always suggest to look at the reasoning for why one draws a specific conclusion rather than the implications of said conclusion. Due to this line of thought, I view him as just a being. A being that likely has skill sets in relation to his overall make up as an entity (energy type and nature), but certainly does engage in a variety of work that exceed the boundaries of such frameworks.

Glasswalker, thank you for your contribution. I do agree with what you are saying, however language provides us with tools that make discourse on such complex beings possible even if limited. As long as we are aware of those limitations it shouldn't be a problem, otherwise if we get stuck into that mindset of infinite possibility it would make any form of debate and exploration futile because it's always restricted and limitative as the nature of these beings can't be accurately approached by words. I believe even Luis Marques explains this.
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Post by Naoom on 19.08.20 4:17

I agree with Nightshade about language and the purpose of archetypes. I believe language may be limited in terms of spirituality and magick, but that is not necessarily limiting in itself. I think true entities exist beyond archetypes, and not behind them, as commonly thought. I believe Gods existed before our constructs, but choose to use them as a sort of framework, because otherwise they end stuck in the mindset which Nightshade explained very well.

For this reason, I think there are archetypes connected with every deity but only when these deities step forward are we able to perceive them. It is good to ponder and question the likelihood that such beings are connected on some deeper level on much higher realms, but I think due to being incarnated ourselves we cannot understand the complexity of that fully, and even if it is true on a much higher level this doesn't negate the duality found in the realms beneath the Divine Plane. This reminds me of the topic Victor started about Three-dimensional power and reality. I think that intellectually this is the only way we can understand how this could work, on all levels.

Coming back to what Glasswalker shared, about the Stars and Anpu. I believe this involves one of the many available pathways after death, and one that would certainly be part of the sphere of influence Anubis holds. I believe this gateway is focused on the goals we have set out for each incarnation, and I think this allows for more careful planning and timing for that purpose than other choices and paths after death. I also think this shows how death is highly complex, and Anubians are a master of it in all of its manifestations and its depth. Death by itself is a very dark topic, because it involves great danger and risk but the same time holds the potential for unparalleled soul evolution that is incomparable to anything else, in my opinion.
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Post by Glasswalker on 19.08.20 4:35

Nightshade wrote:Glasswalker, thank you for your contribution. I do agree with what you are saying, however language provides us with tools that make discourse on such complex beings possible even if limited. As long as we are aware of those limitations it shouldn't be a problem, otherwise if we get stuck into that mindset of infinite possibility it would make any form of debate and exploration futile because it's always restricted and limitative as the nature of these beings can't be accurately approached by words. I believe even Luis Marques explains this.

Individually I would disagree with the idea that such a state is futile and rather that is it one of the best positions from which to learn. Discourse under such a framework is often viewed by most others as tedious, and to a degree I suppose I could agree on such a point. But the tedium should not dictate worth, and I find much more value in putting forward more time and more thought, personally.

Operating under frameworks which are limited without pressure for, at the very least, further insight is in my view,submitting to that framework and making a "decision". Whether explicitly stated or not. Said decision could lead to conclusions which may or may not be correct. To be mindful is not to be stuck, at least in the manner of which I approach such things. It is merely to wait until there is more, and to help construct better mediums which may, in the future, server a better purpose than what is available at the time. It is not to say what is currently available is invalid, or unusable, but rather should be used differently. Acknowledging restrictions is not giving in to them, it is pushing their boundaries and seeing what possibly may arise from such actions. This is philosophy. Less decisive in an immediate fashion, sure, but I am too cautious of a creature to be adamantly decisive in any realm of thought unless provided a quantity of information that would make such an action appropriate. What is necessary for such will of course be unique to each circumstance.

When it comes to beings such as Anpu, it is incredibly difficult. I can understand why people want to work with the available framework(s), because it cuts down on the time and resources necessary to draw conclusions. The difficulty, for me, is just a challenge and an opportunity. To me, I am never stuck like this. Though of course I acknowledge that everyone will always approach each circumstance differently.

Mostly, what I am trying to say is I think it is useful to exist in liminal states (whether that be physical, mental, or spiritual) without being too pedantic. But of course this is merely opinion. I am eager to see more people engage with the topic.

Naoom wrote:Coming back to what Glasswalker shared, about the Stars and Anpu. I believe this involves one of the many available pathways after death, and one that would certainly be part of the sphere of influence Anubis holds. I believe this gateway is focused on the goals we have set out for each incarnation, and I think this allows for more careful planning and timing for that purpose than other choices and paths after death. I also think this shows how death is highly complex, and Anubians are a master of it in all of its manifestations and its depth. Death by itself is a very dark topic, because it involves great danger and risk but the same time holds the potential for unparalleled soul evolution that is incomparable to anything else, in my opinion.

This interpretation is curious and I thank you for it.

Death is "dark", as you mentioned, but it depends on where you are in the world on whether or not it is seen like such. In the West, most modern (domesticated, as I call them) humans are insatiably obsessed with figurative immortality. The structure of Western society in general makes it exceedingly difficult to have earnest engagements with Death, from both a physical and spiritual setting. And, as you mentioned, it can be quite dangerous for those unfamiliar. Learned that the hard way in my youth, haha.

I'd be curious to hear you elaborate, if you felt comfortable, on your idea of unparalleled soul evolution and how exactly that would related to Death. I have my own thoughts, but yours are eternally more valuable than mine.
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Post by Naoom on 19.08.20 4:53

first of all, I don't think my ideas are more valuable than yours, and I appreciate all of your contribution here. Death is dark to me based on the true meaning of darkness, as explained in the Asetian works. I believe there are far too many reasons for why Death is more important  and significant than Life in terms of spiritual evolution, but here are some thoughts. The main one is that Death is beyond time itself. Life is the accumulation of knowledge and experience, but death is what makes that valuable, and integrates it in relation to many other things we have little or no access to while incarnated. Another thing tied to the previous reason I gave is that life can give us the tools to prepare for evolution, and once we are ready that is ignited. Time plays a crucial part in this. Someone who is balanced and successful in all areas of life will be far more capable to advance at a rate that is unparalleled to that of someone who only focuses on spiritual advancement but neglecting their lives. I think the Abyss plays a big part into this too, how it is placed to stop us from corruption, but the same time if used to our advantage it is the greatest ally of All, being the Key to reopening many gateways after death has been crossed, so that we may revisit them at another lifespan and regain knowledge that we once had, more properly or at a different depth than before.
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Post by Glasswalker on 19.08.20 5:18

Thank you for the elaboration, Naoom. I consider all thought shapes that aren't mine to be more valuable than mine, though I suppose that must sound strange. But should I be without all these differing views, I would never grow. In that way, I consider every earnest contribution infinitely more precious.

Naoom wrote:The main one is that Death is beyond time itself.

I like this, and could readily agree with it under a multitude of circumstances. Especially when considering the final end of all things. And the nothingness all should return to. In that way, I think this is a powerful statement.

I am interpreting the rest of this as referring to the cycle of reincarnation, is that correct?
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Post by Naoom on 19.08.20 5:21

Yes, reincarnation is inherently tied to it Smile
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Post by Glasswalker on 21.08.20 22:59

Naoom wrote:Yes, reincarnation is inherently tied to it Smile

Greetings, Naoom. Sorry for not responding sooner. The draft of my initial response was wholly unsatisfactory, and I wished to sit and think on a better way of approaching the next engagement. Now that it's been a few days I think I should try again, as there are a few things that your responses brought to mind concerning the topic in question. For the focus of this topic, I would like to refer to the notion of reincarnation, and your excellent interpretation of the stars that he oversees.

If we are to assume that the functionalities under the archetypes are indeed something Anpu engages in, or adheres to, this consideration brought to mind several considerations.

The first was to acknowledge that other entities also exist under the same archetypes and preform similar if not the same functions in other regions. It of course should be acknowledged when presenting this that many deities are often seen as different in other cultures while having the same source essence (being the same deity). However I am not under the impression that every being that is similar is the same. So for the thread's consideration, I would like to propose that there are possibly separate beings from Anpu that work in the same or a similar way. Adhering to the same archetypal functionality. Following this line of thought, it in of itself presents its own questions.

I would also like to mention this functionality is dictated to other sources, not to a deity or the Divine, in other paths (such as in animistic or shamanistic practices.) The world soul is not "Divine", and they, or children of them, guides this process in some views. Though that might be splitting too many hairs for this specific topic, so we can disregard consideration for it until another time in which it is more relevant. I would have just been remiss to not acknowledge it, as is what I am most inclined to consider given my own experiences.

While being unique individuals, do they have similar origins in nature or energy? Do they work together, or do they respect each other's "realms"? I ask this, because under this consideration, it presents the idea that Anpu would only be engaging in this behavior with a select number of stars. And that begs the question of what kind of criteria has to be met to be included under his guidance. This might seem like an easy set of criteria to consider given the focus of this forum, but only thinking of it from that perspective is missing opportunities for further exploration. Regional, historical, personal interest, and energetic closeness come to mind for me.

What are your thoughts on this?
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God or Gatekeeper of the Underworld Empty Re: God or Gatekeeper of the Underworld

Post by ecstaticbeauty on 05.09.20 15:15

Glasswalker wrote:In my own personal endeavors involving Anpu, the setting is always the same. There is a dome in an abyss (an area devoid of all things) and inside that dome is a view into the universe. So I suspect the structure exists inside an artificial local for the sake obfuscation.

The first thing that comes to mind when I read your words is the concept of the firmament:

"And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. [...]

And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so." - Genesis

Perhaps this is propaganda or outright deception, however I wouldn't be surprised if it's veiled or distorted truth.

When you speak of an artificial local obfuscation, that means to me that some being has created this obfuscation (unless you have another explanation); would you say Anpu is responsible for this, or a different entity?

Glasswalker wrote:I would also like to mention this functionality is dictated to other sources, not to a deity or the Divine, in other paths (such as in animistic or shamanistic practices.) The world soul is not "Divine", and they, or children of them, guides this process in some views.

Your phrasing is a bit convoluted, can you please clarify? Who are the children of the world soul that you refer to?
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God or Gatekeeper of the Underworld Empty Re: God or Gatekeeper of the Underworld

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